You are not the only one: Part 2 (Episode 30)

Brent interviews Janis about the most common issues she is experiencing with clients.

The Life & Love Nuggets podcast will help you learn valuable insights into relationships, life, and love. Brent and Janis have been empowering couples through pre-marriage and marriage therapy in their private practice, Life Connection Counseling, since 1982. They recently retired after forty years of pastoral ministry and are continuing to help individuals, marriages and families in their private practice.

This podcast should not be considered or used for counseling but for educational purposes only.

Transcript:

[Brent]: Hello, friends. Welcome back to Life & Love Nuggets with Brent and Janis Sharp and so, we started last time doing this a little bit differently for a couple of times here, and last time, Janis actually interviewed me.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: And kind of what I'm dealing with in counseling and as a pastor for the-- Over the many years and today, I'm going to interview her.

[Janis]: Okay.

[Brent]: And so, we're going to jump into that here for just a moment.

[Janis]: Yeah. I was absent for a while, while you and Preston did some podcast that I enjoyed.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: And then, last week I was on the podcast. So, a week before last, I guess.

[Brent]: Yeah. So, here we go.

[Janis]: So, here we go.

[Brent]: So, welcome, Janis. This is Janis Sharp. She's the most amazing woman on the planet.

[Janis]: More. More. More.

[Brent]: I've been married for 45 years. We got four amazing children, and--

[Janis]: And we still like each other.

[Brent]: We really like each other and got six amazing little grandchildren at this point and we've been doing life together. We've been able to work together in ministry as pastors. We work together now as counselors and I'm just so impressed with how you care for people and love people and so excited about this opportunity.

[Janis]: Thank you.

[Brent]: And so, it's interesting, both as counselors for this many years, we do things very differently because we have way different personalities and so, certainly that just means every counselor is different, right?

[Janis]: Yes

[Brent]: But I love how inspirational you are and what an encourager you are. Of course, you are that to everybody, but that's actually how you thrive as a therapist as well and as a pastor.

[Janis]: And I do think it's important to point out we're both therapists in separate offices.

[Brent]: Yes, we are.

[Janis]: So, a lot of times, people will get-- Our front desk will get calls, and they'll say “I want to set up an appointment with Brent and Janis” and they're like “Brent or Janis?” and they go “Brent and Janis. I've heard them. Brent and Janis”. So, we do do things separately.

[Brent]: Yes. Got offices next to each other.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: So, to start out with, I'm just curious what you find yourself dealing with. Now, you can talk about what you've dealt with for 40 years, but you can also tone in on what you think people are dealing with mostly right now, if that's the direction you want to take. But I'm just curious about what you're seeing in the world and what you're finding with people that are coming for help.

[Janis]: Yeah, okay. I think more than anything, I am seeing people that are very overwhelmed. That's one of the most common things people say when they come in my office. It's like “well, I had to come see somebody because I'm just overwhelmed”.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: “And I don't know what to do about it” and with that, I'm hearing a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear. It's “our life is overwhelming” or “my life is overwhelming, and I don't know how to change things”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: I think part of it is the pandemic. You know, we were just talking on the way here this morning. In March it's going to be four years since the beginning of the lockdown, which is crazy, but it's had an impact between that and the political climate and all of the mass shootings that are going on. People are just living with this high degree of fear and anxiety, and what I'm finding is, then they had their own personal things that happen. Somebody loses a job or they have a kid that's sick and goes into the hospital, and it puts them over the top.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah, because everybody lives are kind of right at the edge, right?

[Janis]: Exactly.

[Brent]: And one of those things, I think, just what you've been talking about, obviously, and this may be so obvious to everybody, but just that we see it now., right?

[Janis]: Right.

[Brent]: We see these things happen now, and it's just instant with all the feeds, which can be great in one hand, that we can see the world as the world's much smaller in our perceptions and so forth, but only bad news usually is reported and so, it just keeps this constant feed of what the most troubling thing that happened. “What was the shooting that happened last weekend?”, right?

[Janis]: Right, or “how many did we have last weekend?”

[Brent]: Yeah, and just so all of those things just keep everybody at that sense right at the edge and then they have common life issues that throws them over the edge, and they feel overwhelmed, you know?

[Janis]: And I find them saying to themselves “excuse me, what next? When's the next shoe going to drop?” and that's what we found even when we dealt with stuff with our kids. It was like you go through a number of hard things and you live poised, ready for the next thing and one of the things that I'm seeing, I think you are too, is it's really causing people of faith to doubt their faith. It's like “I thought I was doing everything okay and this is happening, but it's not happening to so and so and so and so. They all have perfect lives”.

[Brent]: Right, right, right. They look so good.

[Janis]: “They have great Instagram lives and so, we must be the only ones. What are we doing wrong?”.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: “I know God's not punishing me, but is he? I don't know”.

[Brent]: Because if there's this element in people's faith of “you do everything right if you honor God, if you love-- Do all the right things, then good is always going to happen”. If that's in their faith foundation, then they're going to end up there when trouble happens.

[Janis]: Yeah.

[Brent]: You know, I think that's probably the most significant thing that people struggle with in faith is, “why do bad things happen to good people?”, right? So, if they're there, then they automatically “what am I doing wrong?”

[Janis]: Exactly, exactly, and I think part of it too, is we've all kind of gotten into-- Maybe not all of us, but a lot of us into a life of just letting things happen. I mean, we got in the pandemic, in the lockdown, we all got addicted to Netflix and Prime. Prime is my favorite and so, it's so easy to spend a lot of time just watching things and getting hooked in them and then it feels like “I don't have any time. Gosh, I go to work and then I just don't have any time. I'm not getting to do the things that I want to do”. So, really, I work a lot with my clients on “how do we live intentionally?”.

[Brent]: That's good.

[Janis]: You know, really trying to identify “what are the goals for my life?”. Not in a driven “you better succeed and have the perfect life”, but “am I really living the life that I want to live? And what's missing?”, and so, analyzing our habits, our time, our hobbies. You know, a lot of people don't have hobbies other than looking at their phone and watching Netflix.

[Brent]: Yeah. If you look at the time that people do both of those, it be amazing.

[Janis]: I mean, I hate it when my phone shows how much time I spend on it each day, because I'm like “oh, that's terrible”. But we have to be intentional and a lot of times people are so discouraged, that they have trouble being intentional and that's where I have to work with them on “what's a little step that you can take?” and usually, I start with any kind of exercise. If we can just get you doing a little bit of exercise, that's going to make a difference.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: Or if you would go outside 30 minutes and or/go outside 30 minutes a day, that makes a difference. But really recognizing where we're at, writing down “what do I want for my life? And what's a small step that's doable for me?”.

[Brent]: Yeah, good.

[Janis]: That makes sense?

[Brent]: Absolutely. Yeah.

[Janis]: Yeah. So, I think that can be helpful. I think recognizing that there's other people, as we've said before, that are going through things, I think that can be helpful and just looking at our relationships and saying “are there any things that I can do to be more intentional in my relationships?”. I think we've said before a lot of people are lonely right now, and it's because we lost connection with everybody during the shutdown and you feel weird being the one that's calling people going “hi, do you want to do something?”. It's like being a little kid going “do you want to play with me?”. But we need that because we've given up a lot of real play.

[Brent]: Yeah. Well, I hear a thread in there. It's just about being purposeful, right?

[Janis]: Intentional.

[Brent]: It's intentional, you know? And not expect that life's just going to do it for us and we'd say that for adults, probably some vegging, you know? Where we can shut down a little bit and turn everything off. For adults to unplug a little bit can be helpful. But boy, these streaming services are really good, aren't they? Because they just will go to the next episode automatically.

[Janis]: It’s awesome, and they always end it like “I can't quit now because we have to know what happened to that person!”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah. There's a study that was done on that about-- In marketing, how that has just made such a difference that they just automatically go to the next show.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: So, being more purposeful about” okay, let's do this for this long, but let's then unplug that and do some other things”. You talked about exercise obviously. Anybody that's dealing with anxiety or discouragement or whatever, one of the first things we try to do is just getting them doing some movement, getting some exercise. It does so many things on so many different levels and then again, being intentional.

[Janis]: And I think it's really looking at “what does rest and refresh me?”. Because I may think an afternoon of watching Netflix will refresh me, and sometimes it does. Sometimes it's exactly what you need, but other times it just gives you a chance to kind of have the TV going on, but you have negative thoughts going in your brain and so, really it would be better for me to go hike. Really it would be better for me to meet somebody for lunch and we all have to figure out “what are the things that truly refresh me? What are the things that bring me rest?”, and it's going to be different for everybody. Where you, it may be going for a run. Where me, I might be more refreshed by having lunch with a friend. So, it's finding what those things are because God calls us to green pastures and still waters.

[Brent]: Yeah, that's good.

[Janis]: I mean, he says that's what restores our soul, but we've got to find what those green pastures are for us, and it's different for everybody and I think we're not good at doing that. I think moms especially are not good at doing that because there's always so many needs, and we've got to carve out that time to take care of ourselves, so that we can take care of other people.

[Brent]: So, you deal with a certain amount of moms.

[Janis]: I deal with a lot of moms.

[Brent]: And obviously, overwhelmed, they could easily feel that.

[Janis]: Absolutely. Yeah.

[Brent]: And so, then when you talk to moms about what we consider self-care or how do they, you know, always say they're like a pitcher being poured out. That's just never good enough, right?

[Janis]: Yeah

[Brent]: I mean, whether it's your work outside the home or whether it's your work at home, nothing's ever finished completely. So, would this be it? Being more intentional about some of these things or there's any other things?

[Janis]: And giving yourself permission. I mean, I think moms especially don't give themselves permission, and a lot of people around them don't give themselves permission, don't give the moms permission. It's like “well, we both work. How come you get to take this time off and I don't?” and so, I think a couple has to negotiate to go “what are my--?” Excuse me. “What are my needs and what are your needs? And how can we both get a reasonable amount of those needs met?”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: I say moms with young children need at least 4 hours a week where they are completely alone to do anything they want. Not alone in the house, because if they're alone in the house, they're going to do laundry, they're going to pick up toys, they're going to clean up the kitchen. But getting out to do some things alone can be really helpful.

[Brent]: Yeah.

[Janis]: And again, everybody's different, because you read a magazine article and it says “take a bath”. Well, if you take a bath and you have kids fingers under the door going “Mom! Mom! Mom!”. You know, that's not necessarily relaxing, but a run might be. So, it's finding those things, again, that works for us, that really brings us some refreshment.

[Brent]: Yeah.

[Janis]: And I think in marriage, when-- I'm going to just change subjects here.

[Brent]: Go. Run for it.

[Janis]: Okay. I think in marriage one of the interesting things that I'm seeing right now is really that need to have better boundaries on our phones. I cannot tell you how many couples come in and say “well, he's on his phone all the time”, “well, she's on her phone all the time” or “well, I was only on my phone while she was on her email”.

[Brent]: Right.

[Janis]: “Well, I was only on my email because you were on your phone” and I really-- And I've said this in the past, but I really, really, really encourage people to set limits on the time that they are on technology. Even if it's work, maybe especially if it's work, because we're missing some face-to-face contact with our spouse, but also with our kids and I think that has an impact on small children if we aren't face to face with them.

[Brent]: Yeah, and I found it's just distracting too, because it's things that will pull you there with all the notifications and all those kinds of things that pop up, you know? And people that have their phone or their watches also, that are just constantly distracted to that and so, it's not just that I'm doing work or I'm playing a game or whatever, it's all the other things that just keep distracting. We kind of comment about the fact that our culture basically is training everybody's brain to be ADD.

[Janis]: That’s right.

[Brent]: And we just can't focus on any one thing, even if-- Even the reels on the phone just last a few seconds until the next one, till the next one, till the next one and if we're not purposely stepping away from that for a period of time, I found-- What you found for couples that, I found them being able to make a pretty good adjustment with this. If they can be-- Just recognize it and say “let's do something about this”. It doesn't mean that we can't take 15 minutes or whatever throughout the evening, in an evening and say “let's go work, check our phones and see if we need to get back to anybody” or whatever or “I need to do an email real quick, but then I'm going to put my phone away”. But oftentimes having a little basket or something somewhere on the counter where they all put their phones, where it's not just in their pocket or next to them, where it's just kind of controlling them and so--

[Janis]: So, it all comes back to communication.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: We need to talk about “what do we do with our phones in the evening? What kind of limits are we going to put on them? And how much do you need to get done?”. I mean, we talk about partings and reunions in some of our healthy habits for couples and, you know, you and I work on “O kay. So, what do you need to get done tonight?” or “how are you seeing the evening going?” or “how are you seeing the day going today?” and really being able to communicate and negotiate for “well, I've really got to get in at least 2 hours work”, “Okay. Well, I was hoping to do this. You know what? I'm going to go do that while you're getting your 2 hours of work in”. But we have to negotiate for all of that to find what works.

[Brent]: Yeah. If we just let it play out, then whether it's a child I'm going to get drawn off here or there or just the phone or one person, we're all just on different pages and the whole evening goes and there's not been a purposeful plan then and little by little, couples disconnect, you know? And so, that's really wisdom, is just being a plan and talking that through about whether it's a day off, whether it's a Saturday morning, whether it's an evening, and making sure that we can figure out how do we get some of both needs met.

[Janis]: Absolutely. Yes.

[Brent]: I know you also do some intergenerational stuff with people and their parents or kids or whatever. Adults, you know? Adults with their adult kids or vice versa. So, what are some things you're seeing there that are maybe unique to our times? Or how do you help people in those kinds of circumstances?

[Janis]: Well, I echo some of what you said in our last podcast of just the need to understand your role as a parent of an adult. But I think a lot of it is dealing with our expectations and idealism. I think a lot of people get a picture in their mind of “oh, when I have a grown son, we'll do this” or “when I have a grown daughter, it'll be like this”, or “I'm going to have with the grandkids this much amount of time” and then life turns out and it's not like that for a number of reasons or you're the adult child and it's “oh, I always wanted my parents to do this with us, but gosh, when they come, we get so irritated with each other and it just is rough”.

[Brent]: Yeah.

[Janis]: I had a client the other day that said “I found out-- You know, I figured out that every time my husband and I have a really bad fight, it's when his parents are in town” and it's like “well, of course you're feeling very anxious and it's easy to just get snippy with each other”. So, it's dealing with those expectations and really working on accepting the other person for who they are. They're going to have flaws. They're not going to be the mom or the daughter or the father or the son on TV. They are who they are, they have their own wounds, they have their own imprints, as I talked about Father's Day from their parents and so, they're not going to be the perfect person you want them to be and sometimes they're not going to be even close to what you want them to be and that, again, can involve grief.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: “This is not how I saw life going, but this is what reality is”. So, we find the good in what we have. “I may not have the mom that's going to be daycare for my child, but I do like how she takes the girls every so often to get pedicures” or “I do like the fact that I can talk to her about some of my problems, even if she can't be my daycare person for me”.

[Brent]: Right. Right.

[Janis]: So, it really is accepting what we have and finding the good in what we have and learning to talk to each other. I do a lot-- Quite a bit of, gosh, mother/daughter counseling, mother-in-law/daughter in law counseling, daughter and stepdad. I do some of those. I see fathers and mothers. I know you do that as well. Fathers-- I mean, kids-- Did I say fathers and mothers? Kids and their mothers, adult kids and their mothers, adult kids and their fathers and again, working with the parents of adult kids.

[Brent]: Yeah. One of the things I've had some families do that they found really helpful and again, fortunately, it's become a little bit more in our common language, is do some enneagrams as a family.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: There's something about recognizing that “okay, you live in a different story than I do. The way you perceive the world is different, and that's why you're this way”. Because certainly as parents with grown children, all parents are trying to kind of duplicate themselves in their kids and now, we want to pass on good things that we think could be helpful and so forth. We've got to realize “okay, there's a real unique, different personality there that I need to let be that and not try to mold them into the way that I am” and I think that's where a lot of conflict comes in, adult parents and children and so forth, is that we're trying to push our way-- Well, isn't this true with all of culture?

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: We try to push our way of thinking and the way we see the world on everybody else and certainly it's magnified in our families and so, to make it a fun thing and a light thing, let's all take the Enneagram test, maybe take it at the same place and same type of test with the same kind of reports and just talk about that at times and realize that “oh my gosh, no wonder you see the world that way” and if you're not familiar with the enneagram, there's kind of nine types, nine stories that people find themselves living in and one of the most significant benefits I've seen from the test and having a resurgence, it was used for many years in spiritual direction, but I've seen a really cool resurgence of that and I think the thing that it adds to the world is it helps people be gracious towards themselves.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: That I'm not as critical or harsh about myself. That “okay, these are my weak spots, these are my strengths, but these are also my weak spots. This is my shadow that's probably going to keep showing up, which is kind of our positive things to their extreme” and then it also helps us be gracious for others and we realize that “okay, there's that in them, that that's why they do this” and giving everybody room to be their own person and to fully be alive in their own personhood. I think is one of the greatest gifts and--

[Janis]: I have to say this, I laughed this weekend because-- You'll remember this, because I said something like “You know, we don't really have any trips that are coming up right away that seem like fun and I'm finding myself getting kind of irritable when I don't have something like, fun ahead to look forward to”.

[Brent]: Interesting, yes.

[Janis]: And your response was “oh, really?” and you started laughing. Like, you recognized I get a little cranky when that happens, but that is part of my personality type.

[Brent]: It is. It is.

[Janis]: Just like I know you're going to spot everything that's wrong in a room when we go in.

[Brent]: Right. Right.

[Janis]: But we can be light with that and we can enjoy it and go “well, of course you feel that way”.

[Brent]: So, my brain is going “we got kind of two significant ones coming up. One in two months and one in four months”.

[Janis]: That's two months away, Brent!

[Brent]: Oh my goodness. Yes, but it's, again, without criticism, just being able to go “wow, they live in a whole different story” and it's just reminding each other of that.

[Janis]: Yes. It’s a “no wonder that's how they see that”.

[Brent]: Yeah, absolutely. Because again, we all tend to slide towards the way that I see the world is the way and it is just one of the ways and so, anything else that would come to mind as we close here, kind of final thing that you see or seeing right now or something that you would want to encourage everybody?

[Janis]: Well, I do have a fun story that I thought about and you can decide if you edit it out or not.3

[Brent]: Go for it. No, no, fun stories will always stay.

[Janis]: I'm always the storyteller.

[Brent]: Yes, yes.

[Janis]: So, I was thinking the other day about when we first started the church, and it was 20 some years ago and you know, things were pretty tight. We were pretty broke at that particular point, starting a church from scratch.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: I remember it was spring break, and I wanted to do something really fun with the kids, but we couldn't really afford to go anywhere fun. Do you see a theme there? That fun thing?

[Brent]: Yeah. Showing up again.

[Janis]: Yeah. So, I wanted to do something fun, but we couldn't really go on a trip or anything like that and so, I just decided we were going to have a special day one day, and I was going to take him to a restaurant that we would go to from time to time, but we were just going to splurge. We were just going to have fun getting whatever we wanted.

[Brent]: Yeah.

[Janis]: So, I remember calling you and going-- Do you remember this? Going “do we have money in the account that I can do that?” and you were like “yeah, that's no problem. Go ahead and do that. You could do that or go to a movie or something. You know, whatever you guys want to do. That's great” and I was like “okay, good”. So, we went to the restaurant and we sat down. I told the kids to order whatever they wanted and they could order drinks, you know?

[Brent]: Oh my goodness.

[Janis]: Yes, at the same time and they were like “are you sure? Is this okay? Is this all right?”. I'm like “Yes. It's spring break, we're just going to do something fun. We're just going to do it”. So, everybody ordered their food, and then the guy brought me the bill, and I pulled out my debit card, and I put it on the tray, and he came back and he said “I'm sorry, ma'am, but your debit card was declined” and I was like “what!?” and inside, I'm like “that's not possible! Brent told me that there was plenty of money, it was really okay to do it”, but I kind of freaked out. So, I said “oh, okay” and the kids were like “mom, what are we going to do?”. So, I pulled a credit card out and I handed it to him, and I said “here, do this” and he went and he ran it, and he came back and he said “I'm sorry, ma'am, that was declined too”.

[Brent]: Oh no. Yes, yes.

[Janis]: And I'm like “are you kidding me?”. Because I'm like “we didn't use that credit card! There should have been anything on it” and so the kids were getting really nervous by that time. So, I was trying to get a hold of you on the phone. You were in counseling; I couldn't get a hold of you. So, I think Preston was like, 13 at the time. So, the kids were 3 to 13. Well, I asked the guy, I said “Will you take a check?” and of course, he looked at me like “are you kidding me, lady? You just had two--” He didn't say this. “You just had two cards declined. There's no way I'm taking your check”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: So, I said “okay. Guys, there's an ATM right over there and you can see me the whole time. So, Preston, you sit here and you watch the kids. I'm going to go over to the ATM and I'm going to get some cash”. Knowing or thinking “well, if we don't have money at the debit card, how's that going to happen? But I have to do something”.

[Brent]: Yes.

[Janis]: So, I went over, cash came. It was a miracle. I came out, I paid the guy, and it was like… “okay, we're fine” and the kids were still a little antsy about it, but it was like “okay, we're fine”. Well, later we found out-- I don't know why my debit card didn't go through, because it should. He should have just run it again.

[Brent]: Right. Right.

[Janis]: And the credit card I gave him was expired and I had a newer one in my wallet. I just hadn't thrown away the expired one until-- I was panicky over it.

[Brent]: Yes, yes.

[Janis]: So, we walked out and it was like “oh, that was so stressful. I don't ever want to go through that again”. So, the next morning we got up to take the kids to a soccer game. I had the kids by myself to go to a soccer game and they were like “can we get donuts and stuff?” and I'm like “okay”, but I still had this and this is where this is going and the other shoe is going to drop.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: That was traumatic. So, something awful is going to happen next. So, I got as many coins as I could together because I only had like, one dollar in cash, and I was not going to try to use a debit card again. So, we get into-- Quick trip to our gas station that we go to, and the kids all came up, and I counted out coins to the guy, and the guy that was working as a counter said “I'm sorry, we don't take change”. “What!?”, because I don't want to try to put my debit card through because of what happened yesterday.

[Brent]: I’m remembering this now. Yes, yes.

[Janis]: “What!? How is that possible!?” and I just looked at him, I started getting tears in my eyes and I said “you don't?” and he goes “April fools!”. It was April Fool's Day.

[Brent]: Oh my god.

[Janis]: So, I say all that to say just because we have a lot of stressful things happen and things that feel and I'm not downplaying severe trauma, but things that feel very, very scary because we went through that. We had years of having one bad thing after another. It doesn't mean it's going to continue forever. Things can get better and oftentimes we just go through a season of time where there's a lot of negative things, but then you go into another season and you don't have anything like that for years. So, it's letting yourself believe that good can come.

[Brent]: That’s good.

[Janis]: And just because bad has been coming and coming and coming, doesn't mean it's going to come forever. There's always good ahead and trying to remember that and rest in that.

[Brent]: Yeah, beautiful. Thanks for that encouragement. I always call Janis “The Bounce. Back Kid”. When things go difficult, she always has a way to come back and I think it's because of that belief that good is ahead, good can be and doesn't mean we deny what we're dealing with. There's a lot of real in this life. We will have trouble; there's a lot of real we're dealing with, but there's always a way through. There's always a way that we can do something that moves the needle, that pushes things forward.

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: So, today as we go, we trust you're going to have a great week ahead. Peace to you. Blessings.