Thin Places with Tracy Balzar (Episode 84)

Brent and Janis interview Tracy Balzar, author of Thin Places, about times and places in our life where we have uniquely felt God’s presence.  They discuss the role of our anticipation as key in experiencing these moments in life.

Tracy Balzer is the author of Thin Places: An Evangelical Journey Into Celtic Christianity (Leafwood); A Listening Life (Pinyon); and Permission to Ponder: Contemplative Wisdom for the Spiritually Distracted (Leafwood). Her most recent book is A Journey of Sea and Stone: How Holy Places Guide and Renew Us (Broadleaf).

Transcript:

Welcome to Life and Love Nuggets, where licensed therapist Brent and Janice Sharpe share how you can thrive in your life, your love, and your relationships. Hello, friends. Welcome to Life and Love Nuggets. Our purpose is to help you thrive in your life, your love, and your relationships. We're just really glad we have a very special guest. This is the first time we've kind of done this. We've had other people in the studio here, but we've never had anybody on a computer here.

And so we are... So it's perfect. It's perfect. It's all gonna go perfect. It's absolutely perfect. So I just wanted to do an intro to our friend today.

Her name is Tracy Balzer. She's an author. She's the author of Thin Places, an evangelical journey into Celtic Christianity, also a listening life, Permission to Ponder, Contemplative Wisdom for the Spiritually Distracted. I don't know how we could possibly be distracted in our world today. And then her most recent book is A Journey of Sea and Stone, How Holy Places Guide and Renew Us. So quite an amazing author. Her passion for Celtic and contemplative spirituality is shared in her writing, speaking in her annual leadership of pilgrimages to the Isle of Iona, Scotland, a beloved remote and holy place she has visited more than a dozen times.

Tracy has a deep love in her heart for all things British. This is why we love Tracy so much. Yes. The Cotswolds in England. Kindred spirit. We do. St. Patrick's, a country in Northern Ireland, and then to the dramatic Highlands and Islands of Scotland. Tracy's ministry has been characterized by her calling to listen to God and listen to people.

She worked in campus ministry and Christian higher education for 26 years and is enthusiastically involved in her local Anglican church. She is married to Kerry, a theology professor, and together they have two married daughters. This is the really important part. And three granddaughters with another one on the way. That's so exciting.

That's exciting times. So welcome. So welcome. We're so glad that you're with us. Thank you. Thank you very kindly for this invitation. I've been looking forward to it. Good. Good. Well, we met Tracy.

I think this is how we met you, Tracy. We met Tracy at her daughter's wedding. I think our son Preston was officiating and your daughter, as good friends, your daughter and her husband are good friends with both of our sons and their wives. And so we met you then and talked to you briefly and then Preston sent us an email and asked if we would be interested in going on a trip to Iona with you. He said, you mentioned it to him. And we immediately were like, yes, we would. And so- You didn't know even what it was about.

No, we didn't know what it was about, but it sounded- Line us up. It was in Scotland, so how could it possibly be bad? So we had a wonderful trip with you going to Iona a couple of years ago and then we're going back again this summer. But as I was preparing for this and we were talking about what, you know, we could talk with you forever. So we had to narrow it down. And so one of the things that I recently re-read your book, Thin Places, and Iona's a thin place. It is.

Tell everybody, because you're going to do it so much better than I do, tell everybody what is a thin place? It's interesting because I wrote that book almost 20 years ago. Wow. And that term, thin place, was, it seemed to me, really sort of limited to the British cultural history, specifically Celtic. But I've heard people using that word a lot, that term, recently in a lot of different contexts. But in this particular context, and we don't know exactly where it originated, but it definitely has been applied to a place like Iona that is known as the thinnest place, is the basic definition is that a thin place is anywhere where the dividing line between earth and heaven seems tissue-paper thin. Yeah. Now, what makes Iona a particular thin place?

There's all kinds of reasons that we'll talk about. But what I always feel like is really important about that concept is that, like when I've talked to students about this before, and I say that definition, where earth and heaven seem very close, their eyes light up because they know you don't have to go to a remote island to experience such a place. Right. And we'll talk about where are the thin places that you have experienced in your life? Particularly, where are those places where you just feel, you just sense the presence of God in a new way? And they will say things like, oh, my grandmother's front porch, or of course, when I'm in the mountains, natural places are often where so many of those distractions are away from us, and we can really be attentive. And so, Iona certainly isn't the only thin place.

The thing that I think is also an important distinction about thin places, lest we get too really serious about what it means, is that it does not imply that God only shows up certain places. Because we know, as Scripture tells us, Psalm 139, is that there's nowhere we can go where God is not. Right? We can go to the heights, to the depths, everywhere. He's always there. He's always there ahead of us. The trick is that we are not always present to God. That's right. Yeah. And so, thin places, I feel like, sort of conspire to help us be more attentive, to help wake us up, to help pay attention to where we are, what's going on, and certainly being on a beautiful remote island away from traffic, away from our busy daily lives, would help us to do that.

Just as a beautiful sanctuary or your grandmother's front porch might be. It kind of depends on where you are. Are you paying attention? Are you looking for and listening for the presence of God? So, that's sort of what we're talking about with this. Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Yeah, I think back to when I was in high school, I went to France.

I studied in France for a little bit with a group. It's fancier than it sounds, but it was a group of us that went for six weeks to France to take different classes. And I remember being in a difficult place and I went into Notre Dame and sat in the back. And I felt the presence of God in a way that I wasn't even quite sure what it was. I was a new believer and it was overwhelming. But it's interesting because my daughter recently told me that when she went to Notre Dame, she didn't like it because it was crowded and there were a lot of people and she didn't understand what was going on. And it was, she's a very spiritual person, but it was my place in that time.

And I was so open to the presence of God and I needed it so desperately that I think that was a thin place for me. And I know has been for many. Yeah. That's great. I think about just the idea of sacrament. You know, one of the definitions of sacrament is the distance between heaven and earth collapses. You know, that God is uniquely present in those moments.

And again, it's not that in a church service, God hasn't been there. He's been there the whole time. Everybody carried him in with them. I mean, you know, he's in all of us, but those moments there's this special attunement, I think, to what's happening here. And so that's so good that it really has a lot to do with just our own wakening up to the presence of God within us. One of the things that I have mentioned to a lot of people about Iona is something we talk about with relationships. And that is you have to be intentional to go there.

You don't drop by Iona. It's like, oh, let's go here and then drop into Iona because it takes so long to get there between the flight and the train and the ferry and the bus and the ferry. It takes a long time to get there. And so it is intentional seeking God. I think that's one of the things that helps prepare our hearts. And then the other thing for me was internet was very limited. And so there was no such thing as watching Netflix movie at night, which I think was wonderful.

And I hope they never get strong internet as long as I'm going, because it really was wonderful for us. So tell us about Iona. Tell us how you got started with this. I know it's one of your favorite subjects. So tell us about all your trips or whatever you want to tell us about Iona. Well, because it has been such a big part of my life for the last 20 years or 24 years, I guess.

It is 2024, isn't it? 25? 25, yeah.

We don't know where we are. Yeah. Surprisingly, I would have never guessed that something like this would be so significant in my own life, because I had actually never even been out of the country. And my first time out of the country was when I was 40 years old. Oh, my. But prior to that, I had read a beautiful poem by the poet Lucy Shaw. I don't know if you know her name, but she's one of my favorite people and has had a big impact in my life.

She and her best friend, Madeleine L'Engle, wrote this book called Friends for the Journey. And I had read that like mid to late 90s. And there's this poem about how the two of them and a third friend all went to Iona together. I'd never heard of Iona, but there was something about that poem that just really settled in my soul in a way. I didn't really think about it much after that, but when I got hired at John Brown University to work in campus ministry, there was and is a very vibrant effort to connect with Ireland. The director of our international program is himself Belfast born. He was eager to get all of our students to Ireland one way or another.

And I just thought, I remember thinking to myself that first year, how about we go to Ireland one day? Even though I had that not on my radar at all. And sure enough, that summer, we were asked to lead a summer studies program to Ireland. And prior to that ask, which came out of the blue, I had found a book in our bookstore, our campus bookstore called The Way of Celtic Prayer. Well, I'm always needing to learn more about prayer. And the word Celtic, I recognized enough as having to do with Ireland. And I thought, well, I should read this.

This sounds like, you know, it makes sense. And I loved it. It was, it introduced a whole new way, a refreshing way of praying. And then it was just like two days later that we were asked to lead that trip to Ireland. And so here we are with my husband, Kerry, and myself. It's March, excuse me, it's March, we're planning on traveling that summer. We have two young girls aged like 10 and five, and we're getting that all ready to go.

And I just thought to myself, well, it is in Britain. I think I'm gonna go to Iona. Wow. I had traveled and all, but sure enough, there was a weekend where I could be free, where students were, you know, we didn't have responsibilities for a weekend while we were over there. We were over there for five weeks. And I found my way to Iona and stayed there for a couple of days. And at the Argyle Hotel, where we take all of our groups now, and I came back and I just thought, I need to take people with me. And so that was really the first kind of the impetus of my interest, being there, experiencing it, and just, when it comes to formative experiences, spiritually formative experiences, to me, there's a little better than a good retreat, you know, a good getaway to leave things behind and really be attentive to God.

And Iona is about almost as far as you could get away. It is, yeah. So yeah, a couple of years later, it just started falling together. And I did those trips, because we were still doing a lot of international studies trips for our students. I would probably go to Iona every other year or so. And then maybe come by 2010, I was going every year. And so now I'm taking three groups a summer. That's great.

What was it that captured and continues to capture you about Iona? I think, I feel, it's different for everybody, but I feel the things that are really effective in getting our attention is one, obviously, just the natural beauty. Iona, as small as it is, it's only three miles long by one and a half miles wide. So it's, and it's remote, but not so far away that you feel like you're at, well, you do kind of feel like you're at the edge of the world, but you could go farther. So, but it's just beautiful. The water, I just love anything, any island, I can get on just the, being surrounded by water on Iona, because it is so small, you can access beaches at any time. Of course, we are in the North, so they're not really get a tan beaches, like we might think of the West Coast, but here.

But beautiful white sand, beautiful turquoise water. And of course, we're talking about summer. In the winter, it's quite different. Yes. So the ancient history that is there, and that's really what makes it such a wonderful place for spiritual pilgrimage is that really Iona is known as the cradle of Christianity soon after the fall of the Roman Empire. In the year 563 is really when Columba, a monk from Northern, what we know now as Northern Ireland, came to set up a whole new monastic community on this little remote island. There were already people living there, but no Christian presence significantly that we know of.

And it's from that monastery, that group of believers that missionaries and church planters would ultimately leave and go out and help restore, re-evangelize the northern parts of Scotland and northern England, and even on into Europe, some of them. So deep history, I love to think about the many thousands and thousands of prayers that have been prayed there, because people come for many reasons, but a lot is for that history, to just kind of walk in those steps and remember what significance there is. And of course, there is the Iona Abbey, which is a restored abbey. This is not the abbey that Columba himself would have worshiped in, but rather it was built by a Benedictine community in around 1200, and of course fell into ruin. But in the middle of the 20th century, some folks got together and decided to restore it. And so it is a fully functioning abbey where worship is held every day for anyone on the island who wants to come. So there is a real visible Christian presence there.

It's this great gray Gothic building, and it's actually called a cathedral. I never knew this. Anyway, St. Mary's Cathedral is the official name of it, but everyone refers to it as Iona Abbey. And so to worship there, to have the opportunity to go in and be siloed like you did, Janice, in Notre Dame, is wonderful. And then just simple things like there's only about 120 people who live on this island,and only those people and the people who service the island can have vehicles. So most everyone is walking.

And it's interesting how that just changes our whole disposition for the day. We do not have to be in a hurry. And it's a little bit shocking. I always make our trips either six or seven nights long because I know it takes a couple days just to recalibrate to a place that isn't so demanding of us all the time. So when you think about all of those doing here,what God has done here,and then when we go with a group,we get to share that together, we have plenty of time on our own for silent time or just whatever we feel like we need to do with God. But then when we come together,it's such a gift to hear what others are hearing. Yes,it's interesting.

When we came back from Iona,one of the things people were like,well, how was it? And I know Brent said,and I agreed,he said,we were recalibrated there. It was so good to be there and be away from everything and to feel the presence of God,but to have no stress,no pressure,to be in nature. We want to go hike for a little bit. We can hike for a little bit. If we want to go sit by the beach,we can sit by the beach. And just the sweetness of the presence and just the freedom and being away from technology and pressures and life,it was absolutely wonderful for us.

One of the things that was really fascinating to me was just the services each evening at the Abbey,because this is a place of pilgrimage. I mean,people from all over the world come there for these experiences. And so there are people from all over in these services,little groups of people that gather and from all different imaginable expressions of Christianity. But that wasn't talked about,oh,we're this or we're this or we're this. We were all there for a common purpose. And to me,that was the unity in that was incredibly powerful. And it was so meaningful to us. And so...

It's something that you don't expect. We are trying to experience here. We keep talking about it here in the United States,how,especially as Christians,we need to be unified,but we rarely feel it,experience it in that same way. And there's all kinds of reasons for that. But there is something really delightful about just sitting next to a stranger from Germany there,and you don't know what their own faith orientation is,but they're so eager to share that together. It's like all of that melts away,and we're just there together. And being there not only sort of takes away some of the distractions so that we can listen to God,but so we can listen to each other.

And it's such a gift to make friends from different parts of the world and have that really precious moment together. And even I noticed,not even people in our group,just walking down the roads,people in all different languages and from all different places. It was so sweet just to walk down the road and to see so many people that had come this far because,again,you can't just stop by Iona. You're going intentionally there. And it was a really sweet experience for us. What causes us to focus on what it is that unites us,you know,the fascinating thing about Christianity is pretty much 95 percent of us all believe the same thing. You know,that's why the creeds are so significant,you know,that these things have been passed down for generations.

And this is what we all believe. It's that three or four or five percent of stuff on how we look at this and how we do this and how we do our worship service or how we sense,you know,you know,understand the atonement completely or whatever,you know,those are all the things that separates us. And there's something about these kind of experiences that just drops all that off. There's just no need,no space,no room for we don't have to get into those discussions. It's we're talking about the 95 percent and just what can happen when the church can focus on those things that do unify us and not get caught up on the other stuff. And so that was one of the experiences for me that was significant. I loved it.

Because to your point,we talk about it all the time. It's almost like we've learned here to expect to have conflict. I'm suspicious of that person. I'm suspicious of that. Like where are they coming from?

What are they saying? Is that a tricky way of saying? I mean,we're just on the edge all the time. But when you go in expecting to sort of all be different and we're just here,then it's such a sweet gathering because we don't let all of those things get in the way and just show up,you know,and show up for each other. It's not like it isn't at all like I would not want to say that in going to those services,I absolutely endorse every bit of theological,you know,statements that are made or whatever. I mean,I think for the most part,I own a community that leads the services. They have really stuck to the creedians,and their services are liturgical,and they've stuck to their worship prayer book.

But they do some funky things every once in a while. Our group will come out and just go,what was that? We just kind of like,well,that was interesting. That's just part of that. That's the reality. Like we're in a different place.

This isn't our church. So what can we take away from this? Yeah. And looking at it,yeah,looking at it,those are kind of the minor pieces,right,you know. And you talked about so much about,again,your purpose is to hear God and to hear people,you know,just your own personal journey. And we've been talking about just the interactions that we have,you know,with a group that we go with to those that we might go pass on the walkways around the island and so forth. We all know we have this common sense of,you know,reason for being there. Yeah. But I think that that kind of,those personal interactions I consider sacramental,that if we learn,which I think it takes some learning,if we learn how to sit with people and not have to fix them,not have to give them answers or ideas,but just sit with people and really hear them and validate their experiences and be present,I think we are carrying the Holy Spirit to each other.

And that's a thin place. I mean,that's a place that God just shows up. And those are hard to come by in the busyness of life. And for some reason in our modern Christianity,we have to rush to,you know,what Romans says this or whatever,you know,we have to rush to give answers or to explain a reasoning behind something instead of just being the presence of God for each other. And so we can experience thin places wherever we're at if we do approach each other in that way. And Iona kind of,when we talked about it recalibrated us, that was one of the things is to recalibrate,okay,what's the most important thing we can do here with people as we go back and enter into our regular busy lives? That is a really wonderful question.

And I expect you to bring that question back this summer with the group that we go with. It's a really good one because when you have an experience like that,and this can be true,I think all of us have experiences like we go away for a retreat and we come back and the reality is just so harsh. The reentry is difficult. I think that's one of the gifts,even just with the fact that Iona is so remote,is that you have some time to sort of gradually leave and reenter the world. And you need to go sort of armed with some really good questions and intentions. And the same way you intentionally came,there's some real intention that needs to go with you because it's going to be a different world when you get back. And you don't just want to be that person who forever wishes everything was like Iona and,you know,resent your real life.

Instead,take take with you what was really helpful. And if it is just that sort of reorientation about reminding yourself what is really most important here. Yeah. We joked before about not just having,going to thin places,but being thin people. And in a sense,you know,that we are vessels of the Holy Spirit. What is the best thing we can bring to the person sitting next to us or across the table or office is,like,the best thing is to be the presence of Christ to them. Absolutely. You know,I considered Iona when we were there this last time as my green pastures and still waters.

I felt like God had led me there to restore my soul. And I felt that restoration.

And it didn't go away. I didn't have the same solitude,but I felt like the time that I had there was so healing in just simple ways,in some ways too deep for words. But,you you know God leads us at times to green pastures and still waters. It's whether we listen to that call. And it might be in your back bedroom. There's a place for you to be restored. But it really was a precious memory for me.

In a very particular way,at a particular time. That's wonderful. Yes. Yeah,it's a gift. That's when you realize that such things are a gift. And I'm always very aware that to be able to go to Iona really is a gift. It sort of fits in the category of luxury because it does take so much to get there.

But you're right. I think we can learn from it and from similar experiences is just how to recalibrate our own lives. I don't know. For me,it just helps me recognize how quickly I adapt to the world's expectations of me and make them my own. You know,that suddenly I have to be this busy or this productive or this kind of vocal proponent of something. And it's just too much. It's too much.

We take on more than what God is asking us to do. And so,that recalibrating is really helpful and a gift if you have the opportunity to do it. And I would say,too,like,and if you can't go to Iona,number one,Iona will wait for you. So,we'll we'll trust that there would be a time in the future. But also,and this is going to sound a little self-promoting,but you know,there are and documentors of these experiences who can kind of help virtually take you through the same kinds of questions,the same kinds of realizations. And our churches should be that as well. Obviously,if if you're working together on Sunday,that's an opportunity.

So,you you just have to,I think it first begins with having the desire,the desire for more of God and His ways in your life. And if that includes Iona. Well,to to that point,you are one of those writers. And so,I'd listed your books off at the beginning. But how would people find out about you? Amazon. Well,yes, yes Amazon You can just look my name up.

And remember,my last name is Balls,not Blazer. That happens a lot. B-A-L-Z-E-R. Yes. So,of A L Z E R, Yes, So, of course, Amazon. is a place. And then,you know,all authors are,we do our duty to say,but also support your local independent bookstores.

They won't be carrying my books,but they'll order it for you. But I do have a website,TracyBalzer. com. And that's kind of where there's everything. So,there's there's links to contact me about Iona. You can read about books,of course,and probably some other things. That's great.

But we could talk again for a long time,and we get to come and be with you. We get to be with you for a week and talk about Iona on Iona. So,yeah,so yeah so I would say just one of the experiences we had this last year,and I think Iona awakened us to these opportunities. So,we we were in Ireland in a little coffee shop. And we were at that town just because we found a bed and breakfast. It was really cool. And it was close to the cliffs.

And it was close to the cliffs. Cliffs of Moher. Yeah. And she stopped at this little coffee shop,and we're like,okay,what else is around here? And they said,well,have you been to St. Bridget's Well? Actually,they they just said the well.

Have you been to the well? And we didn't realize it was St. Bridget's. Yeah. And it was like 200 yards down from the coffee shop. Okay. Like literally,we didn't have to move our car.

We walked straight. It was right there. And so we're like,we didn't even know what that was,really. Okay. And so we hadn't really studied it yet. And so we walked,and we looked around,and okay,it's... It was sweet because they said,would you like some candles to light while you're there in the coffee shop?

And we were like,sure. And they just handed them to us. And we're like,can we pay for them? And they're like,no,no,no. Yeah. And so again,this wasn't the tradition that we were raised in,you know. And so we walk in this well.

I mean,it's just a little cave that you go down into. Oh,my my gosh It was like,I mean,it was palpable. And I am not prone to this,Tracy. I am not prone to being... Janice will tell you,I'm not the most emotional,emotionally,you know, expressive person. And of course,there were pictures all over the walls of people's families and,you know,where they'd been praying for all these people and stuff. And it was like,I mean,it was...

I don't even know how to express it still. I mean... We both walked in,and I,of course,immediately had tears going down my face. I didn't even see or hear about it. I had heard of St. Bridget's Well, and I thought,oh,we should try to look it up while we're in Ireland,but then kind of forgot. And I had tears going down my face,and I turned and looked at Brent,and so did he.

And it was like,wow,he's feeling the same thing that I am. And it was so precious. And to feel connected to all of those people that had the pictures there,to know that they came in seeking the Lord,praying for their family.

It was unbelievable. Yeah. So it's definitely another thin place to your point. There's thin places around. And to know that,again,people came there for a common purpose and prayers for,I don't know how old it is,but it's,you know,hundreds of years,you know. Yeah,I guess we wouldn't know necessarily how old the well is. You know,we just had St.

Bridget's Feast Day was February 1st. Pete I've been reading about her more,because I'm going to be,book,okay? So for the 20th anniversary of the Thin Places book,I really want to do some more writing on the three great saints of Ireland,which is Bridget,Patrick,and Columba of Iona. They're all Irish. So even as we talk about Celtic Christianity and its significance on Iona,it's Irish. This is an Irish church,and so it's wonderful that you found that spot,and I feel like I need to go there now. Yes,you do.

We'll give you the Airbnb to stay in,too. We'll give you the location. But you know,isn't it interesting,though? It is that thing about,like,people have come here seeking. There's nothing magical about this. Absolutely. Nothing magical about Iona,but it's the people who come acknowledging their need,really their need for God.

Even if it's very,just,what we would say is just like asking God for stuff. You know,asking God for healing. Well,that's what people did when they saw Jesus. He would say,what do you want me to do for you? And so here's this place where they were telling Him. And it just gives me chills to think about it. That's a wonderful,wonderful story.

Well,if we believe that every person on the planet that's ever been and ever will be has been made in the image of God,that they carry a little bit of God in them,then these moments are places that stir that up. That,to your point,it causes us to stop and consider the God that I'm made in the image of,giving Him permission,giving Him somehow releasing His presence in our life to experience that. And these are those kinds of places that just stir that up,you know,so well. And so,well,thank you. And we're going to try to hold you over here and do another one of these in just a minute on a little bit different topic. Happy to do that. Yeah. But thank you so much.

This has been wonderful. And so to all of you that are watching and listening,we hope that you'll grab a hold of something and that you'll begin to release God fully in your life,giving Him permission and looking for those moments and thin places. And hopefully some of you are going to be able to get ahold of Tracy and come on one of these pilgrimages. It is truly life changing. So go in peace today. Blessings as you go.