Having Difficult Conversations (Episode 88)

Many people find themselves shying away from difficult conversations.  Brent and Janis look at the negative impact on limited communication in important relationships. They also discuss the critical things to know in helping difficult conversations happen and how to ensure they are helpful in building and strengthening our relationships. 

Transcript:

Welcome to Life and Love Nuggets, where licensed therapist Brent and Janice Sharpe share how you can thrive in your life, your love, and your relationships. Hello, friends. Welcome to Life and Love Nuggets. Well, I would say we're going to start out today. We're quite a pair today.

Yes, we are. We have our radio voices today. Janice had a medical procedure where they stuck a scope down her throat.

And I'm feeling it. And so her throat is all raw and everything. And I've been having the crud and some kind of sinus something for a little while. But we're here. But we're here. We made it. And we are going to do this. And so this particular session, we're going to talk about how to have difficult conversations.

I've been fascinated. I don't know if fascinated is the right word, but fascinated and troubled, I guess, over the years, working with people as a pastor and counselor that so many have found themselves really disconnecting from others that are really important to them. I mean, really important people in their lives because of the inability to have difficult conversations. And now communication is one of the most significant connecting activities we have as humans. But we humans tend to avoid difficult conversations. For some reason, we just don't like the stress and the pain that that can set up. And so we just naturally tend to avoid things that are painful.

And there's two different kinds of ways that I've seen this happen where communication goes badly. One is that discussions put such a high level of emotion at play in the person. And both people tend to get defensive and argumentative really quickly. And the discussion tends to go absolutely nowhere. That's when couples saying counseling, oh, that didn't go well. Yes, exactly. And secondly, and probably because of the first, people just tend to avoid it.

And they avoid important conversations. So things never get dealt with. They never get addressed. And it leads to very little connection. It's one of the most significant ways for couples to start slowly pulling apart. And they can live for years with misunderstandings and unresolved issues that can separate them. Mm-hmm. People seem to struggle with that.

The need to be truthful, but also wanting to be kind, wanting it to go well. And it seems like that a lot of them just give up the attempt because they don't think they can do both. It's like, I can't be honest and still be nice. Still be kind and respectful. And so I'm just gonna avoid it. We've dealt before on our podcast dealing with communication and conflict resolution. And we've talked about a lot of the needs with that.

But we're kind of looking at this from a different angle today. So what do we mean by difficult conversations? Well, difficult conversations can be things that are hard to talk about in many kinds of relationships, pretty much all of our relationships. It might be a coworker where we're feeling some kind of a tension, or there's been some kind of misunderstanding with us. It feels like a disconnect. It could be an employee that's not doing what they need to do, or a boss maybe that we feel is unfair. Certainly in our marriages, we have a need to discuss difficult things.

Difficult things come up, but it can also be with one of our siblings. It could be with a parent. It could be with an adult child, or it could even be with good friends or other family members. It seems that one of the key factors on whether a conversation is gonna go well or not is our own level of self-awareness of what's going on internally, emotionally at the time. If you could track this, if you could track our emotions on an X, Y axis, if people are familiar with that. And so if you kind of started at the bottom left of a page and drew an arrow straight up, that would be if we went from kind of low arousal at the bottom to high arousal at the top. And then you started at that same point and drew a line to the right from high negative feelings to high positive feelings.

Then if you kind of put four quadrants in there, the top left box would be high arousal and high negative feelings. Which doesn't sound like it would go well. It doesn't. And yet so often we are not even aware that we're triggered in some ways, that we're heightened. And we start into these conversations. And if we had just realized we're already triggered, why am I trying to talk? This is not gonna go well.

As we mentioned in previous podcasts, we talked about the whole dance step kind of thing that happens in marriages where we end up triggering each other and we all carry bruises and people do things or say things that hit our bruise. And we respond to that. And so that's where the sympathetic nervous system kicks in. Our fight or flight responses are activated. And when we're activated, when we're triggered like that, those conversations are simply never gonna go well. Now, we are not broken, bad humans because we have this part of us. I mean, God knew we needed this part of our brain.

There are some significant threats in the world as we've talked about before, that if you're jogging in the neighborhood and some big dog you've never seen before starts chasing you, we don't want you to stop and go, huh, I wonder what kind of dog that is. I wonder if it was gonna bite me. I wonder if it would hurt if it bit me. I wonder if it has rabies. I mean, it's not the time for that. We don't stop to evaluate.

It's the time to run. And so the amygdala needs, that part of our brain needs to light up, send adrenaline into our body and get us to safety. The problem is that system doesn't distinguish well between a dog's chasing us or a spouse or a child or a coworker has done something or said something or whatever that's hurtful. So we go into this fight or flight response, which is the two ways that we've seen. We just mentioned that it goes badly, either we go into the attack mode or whether we run away and protect ourselves. And so neither one of those get conversations going well. So number one, it's just really being aware of that.

Yeah, we really have to be self-aware of our emotions at the time when we're going to have a conversation so that we know whether it's gonna go well or not. If our emotions are high, it's not gonna go well. And so sometimes we need to just go, I need to take a break and I need to calm down and look for a better time to talk later. Or if we're getting ready to talk, we need to make sure that we are emotionally prepared and the other person is too, to ask for a time for a discussion maybe that we've been avoiding. So we don't start that discussion when we're at the height of our emotion. The setting is also critical for conversations to go well. We don't think there's anything, any topic that's too sensitive to talk about, but we think there's some environments or some context that are too sensitive or not good for these kinds of conversations.

So that's why we don't try to talk to somebody in a public setting with people listening around us or in front of our kids, or we don't do it over text or over social media. We have to have the right environment for a good, healthy conversation. And we've got to make sure that the other person isn't caught off guard. Just because you're in a good place to discuss this doesn't necessarily mean that they are. So we both have to be ready to talk in a situation that is confidential and feel safe. That's when really important conversations need to happen. It's really like setting an appointment.

It really is. You know, I need to talk about something, you know, you've got some time today or in the next couple of days that we could get together and talk. And we think about the setting, we think about make sure it's private and confidential.

And- We've had lunch. We've had lunch, you know, that we are emotionally prepared, you know, for that. Those all make such a difference in this. And once we kind of set that setting, the critical next step is what is our attitude going into that conversation? Most conversations about difficult situations end up with one person trying to prove their point. And if that's the attitude that you're going to go into, the other person's going to feel that. And it will, it'll send the conversation in a not very healthy place.

Now, our challenges by adulthood that, you know, we've talked about this before, that the way we see the world, we think is the right way. It's the accurate way. And now if you agree with me, then you're like a super bright person. You're in my camp and I like you and I, you know, and we could be best buds, okay. But the minute, but if you disagree with me, well, I think I see it the right way and you don't see it the right way. Therefore, I need to help you see the light and prove my point to you. And again, this is just human, but it will set the conversation up on the wrong course.

If we start out by trying to prove our point where we think we're right and we're trying to persuade them, it's not going to go well. Because unfortunately, the person that's receiving this will feel that and they will begin immediately to put up their defense. Yeah. Harvard Business School, a behavioral psychologist, Alison Woodbrook says, we have to think about, are we trying to persuade them or are we trying to connect with them and to understand where they're coming from? Really the most effective way to go into conversation is to really focus on learning. I want to understand your perspective. I have to listen with the attitude of, what can I learn from this?

How can I understand you more to help our conversations be more productive and to go in a good way? That's why we don't want our emotions high because that all goes right out the window. Ironically, when we don't go in trying to win, when we go in trying to learn and understand, we're generally more persuasive because the people see us as more understanding and more committed to the relationship, more reasonable. Psychologist Julia Minson talks about the concept of conversational receptiveness and that's the ability to be open to different viewpoints. That's something we see people struggle with.

Oh my gosh, like, wow. I mean, people are really having a challenge. I mean, in our world today, particularly with all the hot topics that are out there. So it keeps us moving into separate little pockets of belief and disconnecting from one another. So this idea of conversational receptiveness moves us from a focus of persuasiveness to learning. It involves acknowledgement of what they're saying, affirming what they're saying. We've talked about this principle called active reflective listening, where you kind of repeat back or reflect back what I heard the other person say.

Not only does it help you get a clear understanding that this is really, that I heard you right, but it also helps them understand that you care and that you're respecting what it is that they're saying. And so they feel valued, they feel heard. And then even following with, I heard that. I can see that makes some sense, you know.

Tell me more about that. We're inviting even more from each other. Now, all of this, again, one of the problems we have of this is we tend to think that if we do this and if we kind of give affirmation of value to what they're saying, that it means we're agreeing with it. And it doesn't mean that, it's all independent from agreement. We can validate their feelings even if we don't believe what it is that they're thinking. And that can move the conversation forward in a much more productive way. Yeah, you know, another block of effective communication about communication about difficult things is that we get fixated on the differences.

We're totally fixated. And we forget that we agree on like 95% of everything else. It's that 5% that we get hung up on. And this is something that we see so often in the church. You know, with churches, most churches agree on 95% of the things, but it's the 5% of, yeah, well, you don't do worship the way that we do or small groups. I don't know that I like your small group thing or baptism.

How do you do baptism? Or let's talk about the Holy Spirit. There's just those differences that keep us apart. And yet there's such tiny things in the whole scope of things. So it's reminding ourselves when we go into a conversation of all the things we have in common with that other person. And it's gonna help in difficult situations. It's gonna help our attitudes and it's gonna help them be more receptive because they're gonna sense that from us that we're not critical over the few differences that we have.

And then how we speak is also a major factor in how these difficult conversations go. Many people speak in what we'd consider absolute language. They communicate everything as if it's a fact. And many communicate in a way as if they're kind of prosecuting the issue, expecting that both sides are gonna prosecute their side and then some judge somewhere is gonna step in and say who's right and who's wrong. The problem is there's no judge. Sometimes they want us to be as counselors. Right, right.

That's not our job. Most issues are not right and wrong, even though that's where the conversation goes. It goes into who's right and who's wrong. And we are not suggesting that there are no right and wrongs in the world. But in our experience, like we've been doing this over 40 years. I mean, I don't think I've ever had a couple in marriage counseling fight over whether they should rob a bank or whether they should kill their neighbor. I don't think we've never had that. Right. It's usually about the others being too permissive with their teenagers or they're throwing their clothes on the bathroom floor.

Or they load the dishwasher wrong. Yeah, or you interrupt me or we're not having sex enough or whatever it is. And that's what we find in most people in culture even that, again, back to that we have most things in common. But we argue about these things that are really opinion-based, not fact-based, but we communicate it in this absolute language. It is very hard to receive this. And it often just triggers this whole who is right and who is wrong. And so if we can use more tentative language, more qualifying as in, well, the way I think is this or the way that I see it.

My opinion about this is this or as I've studied this, I've seen this concept. It moves the conversation along more effectively and it gives the opportunity to actually enjoy these conversations. So they aren't so laborious. It is suggested that there are three ways. My way, your way, and the right way. Most times, however, there's simply no right way. And so it's just recognizing that everybody sees the world through different lens and are gonna have different perspectives on it.

So if we can enter into it with, again, that idea of learning rather than trying to prove a point and then using more tentative language. So when you made the comment about interrupting me, was that because I just interrupted you a few minutes ago? I was just checking,I was just trying to have an honest and open communication with you,yes,yes,okay.And you guys have heard us say many,many times,if you can eliminate the yous and yours from your sentences,it will help the conversation be so much more effective. So instead of you did this or you did that,if you can say when this happened or when I was told this or when I walked in the house and I saw this,it moves the focus from the person and from the person being the problem to the problem being the problem. How many times have we said that? But it can help others hear it better without getting as defensive and it moves the conversation along much better. That takes practice.

That's one of the hardest things when we teach people conflict resolution. They'll say,okay,I'm not going to say you or yours. And then first word out of their mouth is you,or they go,oh,yeah,that was like ten yous that I just said then. It's hard. It takes practice,but it really,it really,it really does. Your words change the conversation from who's wrong and who's right and who's going to win this into,into we're collaborative. We can do this as a team.

We can solve this problem as a team. It's not about winning. We tell married couples all the time,if you feel like you've won an argument with your spouse,you've lost because you're one,you're a team. So the goal is to learn,to understand,to connect,to build the relationship,keeping the words you and yours out. It's going to make a huge difference. We also oftentimes make assumptions of another person's perspective. We use it because we usually interpret information based on what I would have meant if I said that,as we put ourselves in their shoes thinking I would have meant that.

And it's usually not very accurate. I remember the very first time that you said that you hated something. And I was like,what?You hate it? Because if I had said that I hated it,I like hate it. I loathe it. Okay. And I found out you just didn't prefer it.

We were talking about some clothes or something and you'd go,I hate that,you know,and I,you know,and it's just,you didn't prefer that. And so we have very different meaning. And so it's hard to take another's perspective by trying to put our self in that,in their shoes. We simply have to ask them. They're the only ones that can tell us what they really mean. I was talking with somebody this morning about a conversation they were having in a class,happened to be a theology class. And they were having a,somebody in the class made a statement about that they,a certain part of Paul's writings and that they didn't like his attitude. Yeah. But they were interpreting meaning based on,again, from. Yes. 2000 years ago. Okay. Based on what they thought they would have meant if they said something,you know.

Well,you've you've got to go back into the context of culture and you'd actually have to ask Paul. And we don't have that opportunity. Let me know if you do get to talk to him. Yeah,we we don't have that opportunity right now,you know. Yeah,yeah.It yeah It goes back to the whole old communication saying,meanings are in people,not in words. That's right. We can use the same words and it means something totally different. Absolutely. So in closing,healthy relationships require that we have difficult conversations at times.

There's no way to connect two totally different people without some level of conflict. It's inevitable. It doesn't mean the relationship is bad. It doesn't mean that we're bad. It means we're humans and we're going to have that. So we're either,either we don't see things the same way or you did something or you didn't do something that really upset me or that really hurt me. But if we can take into account our own emotions at the time,being self-aware,pick the right time that we have a conversation where both of us are ready to have it,not just,I need to talk about this.

I'm in a good place. So listen to me and you're going to talk about it now. But it's respectful so that we're both ready to have the conversation and we enter into the conversation to learn and to understand,not to fix,not to persuade or not to win and that we're careful with our language. We watch the you and yours. We watch the absolutes. Then we can find more unity,more connection and more peace in our lives. Absolutely. And we realize as we go today that all relationships require some risk taking and to actually deepen the relationship,to move towards people.

There's some risk involved,but it is so worth it. And if you can keep some of these things in mind,then whatever the relationships are in your life where you've been maybe avoiding some important conversations,hopefully there'll be some ideas here that can help you to step towards that other person and begin to connect,find again that place of unity and connection that we believe is the best and highest place that God has for us to live. So for today,go in peace. Blessings as you go. This podcast is produced by Clayton Creative in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The content should not be considered or used for counseling,but for educational purposes only.