Daily Connections and Valentine Hints (Episode 8)

Brent and Janis share two simple workday habits that can deepen the connection with your spouse and an idea that can be a booster shot to this Valentine’s Day.

Appreciation Letter

Try to take some time to think about these. Fill in your answers and then find a time you can sit with each other and share them.

“Thank you for the way you always _____________________”

“You are so cute when you _____________________”

“The first thing that attracted me to you was _____________________”

“The thing I didn’t know about you before we were married, but which has pleasantly surprised me is _____________________”

“The qualities in you that I want our children to have are _____________________”

“You make my life better by _____________________”

“The things that physically attract me to you are _____________________”

“The things that I like most about your personality are _____________________”

“Our most special day to me was _____________________”

“If I could give you anything in the world right now, it would be _____________________”

“Thank you for _____________________”

Transcript:

[Brent]: Welcome back, friends, to Life & Love Nuggets. Our goal here is to try to help you thrive as individuals and also thrive in your relationships. We've been talking recently about this, we kind of started a series on how do you take care of your relationship, how do you feed it well. Talked about this idea that, when relationships begin, we start off with kind of this face-to-face kind of experience.

[Janis]: “You and me baby against the world”.

[Brent]: “You and me baby against the world” and we call it the unoffendable zone and it's just so easy to do nice things for each other, it feels wonderful, it feels amazing, this is kind of why we walk down the aisle with this person. But we also been talking about the fact that we all get about 18 months of that and if we aren't paying attention to that and learning how to love, that love is an action word, love is a choice, it's something we do regardless of how we feel. I love-- C.S. Lewis has a great quote [Unintelligible] talking about your neighbor, but I think it's true to the principle of “feelings follow behavior”. He said “don't worry about whether you love your neighbor or not, treat them as if you do and then presently, you will come to love them”.

[Brent]: So, there's something about the way that we choose to love, that creates these nice warm feelings. So, last podcast we talked about these love nuggets, which is kind of where we got part of our name.

[Brent]: For this whole thing. These are kind of something we've been talking about for years with couples and these little simple caring behaviors and I hope that you started some of those. I hope that we've got those working.

[Janis]: Or that you at least have your list done and you've exchanged the list.

[Brent]: Yes, at least and so, today we're going to talk about a few more of these simple little caring behaviors. Again, we mentioned last time that if you added the time that all of these took and if you look back on it in a week, it's about 4%, about 7 hours of our week. We get 168 hours in a week, it's about 7 hours. Now, again, I think you mentioned last time that this doesn't mean that this is all the time we spend together, but it's very purposeful time.

[Brent]: And most of these take just a few minutes and the matter of fact, this first one we're going to talk about is-- I mean, it takes literally a minute, maybe two minutes and-- Because I asked people “what are your mornings like?” and so many couples, I'm sure that you guys experience this, where the mornings particularly with children, I mean, it's just get ourselves up, knock the dust off ourselves, get ourselves moving, get the kids out the door. You know, see if we can't get some nutrition in everybody and we're off to school, off to work, off to busyness.

[Janis]: And really what we're looking for, is adding healthy habits. There's so much out right now about getting a good morning routine and this is a tiny habit to put in your morning routine, that you just build in to make things easier.

[Brent]: So, what this one is, we call it “partings”. Where you just simply find the other person. I have people that where one of them gets up early and is kind of getting out and the other one's just barely getting out of bed and so, they do this sitting on the edge of the bed in the morning for a minute.

[Brent]: Somewhere, you know, we've gotten the kids going and they catch each other in the kitchen or somebody's in while somebody's drying their hair in the bathroom, whatever works for, you know, with a couple. We find the other person and we simply share the most significant thing that we're facing that day. Most of us wake up with some kind of a burden, some kind of heaviness, something that's kind of a stressor that we're thinking about and that's where our focus is and oftentimes, our partner has no clue what's going on with us.

[Janis]: That’s right. Especially if your partner is exceptionally quiet.

[Brent]: Really?

[Janis]: Uh huh.

[Brent]: Huh. Now, who'd that be?

[Janis]: Well, I've just heard from clients.

[Brent]: Yeah, I'm not a real chatty person ever.

[Janis]: No

[Brent]: Maybe I am on this podcast, but ever--

[Janis]: Yeah, he fools everyone when we do podcasts and seminars, because he talks so much.

[Brent]: But I'm really pretty much an introvert, I'm pretty quiet and I could not say a lot of words in the morning and that leaves-- Has left you kind of wondering “what in the heck is he thinking today?” and so, we just share again, that most significant thing. Because again, we're about to leave each other's presence for eight or ten hours and we've been carrying that burden and oftentimes, our partner has no clue what's going on with that.

[Brent]: Now, it doesn't mean that that every day we're going to have some big huge thing that takes place, but it might be a meeting that we're thinking about. We've got to get a little bit more preparation for and that's where our brain is. It might be “the refrigerator sounds weird, we need to call somebody and get them out today and I'm the one that does that in our family” and maybe I've got to meet with a teacher after school, you know? The kid is struggling with algebra and we just gotta have “I hope that meeting goes well”. It could be all kinds of things.

[Brent]: And so, we had a situation, as an example of that, many months ago I was again, particularly quiet. Not a chatterbox ever, but I think you were wondering “what's going on with him?”, you know? Because I was kind of exceptionally quiet and I simply shared that I had somehow had to make a phone call and I was thinking I needed to talk to a lawyer, a psychiatrist, in just a few minutes. I don't have much time on busy counseling days to make phone calls and so, I was going to have maybe five or ten minutes in between sessions to do this.

[Janis]: Which were lucky to have that.

[Brent]: Yes, and so, I was thinking about that and I was needing to coordinate some care for a client and I just was in my head on that and worried, a little stressed, a little frustrated maybe, a little concerned, because some of the conversations with these people so far, hadn't gone so well and so, I was really quiet and I just simply shared that and I think it helped you realize--

[Janis]: Absolutely, you're not mad at me.

[Janis]: Yeah. You're not in a bad mood, you're not mad at me, which I wouldn't know unless he told me that and so, it's helping your partner know what's really going on. Because in so many situations, people will leave for the day and they'll go “well, they had an attitude today” and they assumed that it's something about them personally, when oftentimes it's something totally different.

[Brent]: Or a non-verbal stuff, we read into stuff and we kind of get an attitude and you know, it affects our day and all that kind of stuff and so, we didn't have time-- This is not a time to really talk about it in detail. It's not a problem-solving time, it's just simply “I have a burden, I'm handing it to you and you grab a hold of it”.

[Brent]: It's my burden still, but now you're aware of it and we went on throughout our day and again, we didn't have a chance to talk about a lot, we didn't need to. Again, don't have time to even look at my phone very often, but I noticed about three o'clock that afternoon, I noticed that you would text and you had said “hey, how did that phone call go?” and I was like “oh my gosh, you've been thinking about me”. It really was a pretty significant feeling, it's like you were in this with me, you cared about it, you recognized I've been carrying that and you remembered it.

[Brent]: Pretty big deal and I didn't have a chance to say much. I didn't-- We didn't have a phone call; I didn't have a chance to call or do anything. I think I text back and said “better than I thought. Tell you about later”. Now, in our schedule, there are some nights where I-- A couple nights a week I work really late and I think I got home at 10:30 that night and I'm pretty sure that particular night you were already--

[Janis]: Deep in prayer or something.

[Brent]: Deep in prayer, yes. You were asleep and--

[Janis]: It was past pajama time.

[Brent]: It was past pajama time and so, we didn't have a chance to even talk that night. It wasn't until the next morning and we had a few minutes before we left and we kind of unpacked that a little bit, but it connected us.

[Brent]: We were apart for literally almost 24 hours there. Now, you part of those hours, you were in an office next door, but we wouldn't have a chance to talk much.

[Janis]: Right. Maybe 18 hours.

[Brent]: However

[Janis]: However

[Brent]: And so, we were able to stay connected, to feel connected. I found out later you'd actually been praying for me during the day.

[Brent]: And it created a connection and what this does, is we simply find that over time, again, there's not any one of these experiences that just makes, you know, creates deep emotional intimacy and closeness, but it's the consistency of this, it's the cumulative benefit of all these times. Now, I tell couples if you're together with each other for, you know, all day on Sunday, you don't need to do this. It's basically the days that we're apart from each other and so--

[Janis]: And these are things that were really natural when we were dating. I mean, we just always “hey, what do you have going on today? How are you doing this morning?”. We would check in first thing in the morning to just see how the other person was doing, but we get busy in our lives and we just go in different directions. So, it's just that reminder that we're on the same team and we want to connect before we go out into the world and start our day.

[Brent]: Yes, and so, again, we're taking things that were naturally inspirational in courtship and make them purposeful and we're just encouraging couples to try this. Now, you might want to turn this off for a minute if you're listening with your spouse or maybe make sure that tonight, you guys sit down and decide when this would happen. You gotta, you know, think through your morning. “Okay, is it when we're getting toast? You know, we're making kids lunches. Is it here? Is it there?”. But I've even found empty nest couples, one couple gets up early and leaves and the other one is-- You know. So, they need to do this as well.

[Janis]: Absolutely

[Brent]: Even though they may feel like “we're together a lot”, but they're still apart from each other quite a bit or in different parts of the house or whatever.

[Janis]: And it's being purposeful, it's purposeful about what's going on in me today.

[Brent]: Yeah. So, we'd encourage you to try it and see how-- See what it does over time. Now, we do recommend that somebody owns this for the first 30 days. That they are the reminder and that everybody agrees on that. That, you know, that I would be-- If I'm the reminder, I would find you “hey, tell me about your day” and that would just-- And then I would share about my day and we just make sure you're gonna have to do this pretty really on purpose, you lean into it pretty hard for 30 days until it just becomes naturally this is what we do. But we found that it does create a real sense of connection over time. Even if what we're sharing is not--

[Janis]: Significant

[Brent]: We are saying “you're important to me and I want to share what's going on with me. I want to know what's going on with you”. Again, we don't really comment about what they share, we don't--

[Janis]: We don't say “oh, don't worry about that”.

[Brent]: Yeah, we don't do any of that, we just share it.

[Janis]: Yeah. Now, I have some couples that will say “well, can't we just text in the morning?”, because their schedules are different, you know? They're going different places in different times and as you said, somebody wakes up earlier than the other. That's kind of the lowest option. I really prefer face to face, there's just something different about being face to face. Second option is just a brief phone call and I know for some of you guys, that's not very normal, because you pretty much text everything. But just a two-minute phone call can reconnect, but if you absolutely have to, texting is an option.

[Brent]: Yeah, or it might be if I'm the-- if I'm the one up and out early and I know this is about the time that you're getting the kids together or this is the time you have a break at work or whatever, then I would be the one that might text you and say “hey, you ready?”, you know?

[Brent]: And then, we do a quick phone call or I might be the one to call and while you're taking the kids to school or something and we talk for just a few minutes and so, try to get that voice in there instead of text.

[Brent]: We don't recommend texting much of anything in marriage, actually that's important.

[Brent]: Other than “hey, I'm on my way” or something. Text gets so misread and misunderstood and yeah, we'll talk about more of that later, but couples fight text. Oh my gosh, it's horrible. Don't do that, don't ever, ever do that. Anyway, we'll talk more about that.

[Janis]: Yeah, we will.

[Brent]: Another time. So, this is parting. So, this kind of gets us moving into our day and keeping us connected.

[Brent]: The second one is, now, at the end of our day. It's what we would call “reunion” or “couch time”. Now, we use the term “couch time” not because you have to be sitting on a couch, but we do recommend that you're sitting upright. If somebody waits to-- If we-- You know, if we're lying in bed and we wait to do this, somebody's probably gonna fall asleep and so, you know, try to be sitting upright. You'll be sitting in your favorite chairs in the living room or your favorite, you know, back porch area and nice weather; whatever it is. But the idea is we're just bringing our ships back together now.

[Brent]: We've been apart, we connected when we parted, but now we're pulling our ships back together and reconnecting. Because again, evenings. I ask couples “what are your evenings like?”. “Well, gosh, we've got-- You know, we've got so many kids in sports and this is happening, that's happening. So, one of us is usually over here at soccer practice and the other one's got to take this one to piano lessons and then we try to get food here and you know, then we got to get the kids in bed” and all that kind of stuff and again, we even find this with--

[Janis]: Empty nesters.

[Brent]: Empty nesters or couples-- Young couples without kids, is the evenings there's one's over here working on the computer and the other one is working on a project or somebody's watching the television in the other room and oftentimes, we're not connecting. So, this is a 15-to-20-minute thing and we found if couples can get this, even if the rest of their night is pretty disconnected and they're going all over the place, it makes such a difference.

[Brent]: And so, it's having a kind of a debrief about our day. It's not-- Again, it is not problem solving. Now, we keep saying “this is not about problem solving”. There's going to be times--

[Janis]: To solve problems.

[Brent]: You may have to solve problems. So, we're going to talk about that eventually, but this is not the time to do that.

[Janis]: Here's one of the things I tell my clients. I always say we're going to start with some of these simple habits, because you don't have enough emotional energy going right now to really work on problems. So, we want to get some positive things going. I want you to really like each other before we start dealing with conflicts.

[Brent]: So, this is kind of to debrief, it's time to just listen carefully to the other person and as everything, there needs to be some structure to this or these won't go well.

[Brent]: And so, there's kind of four guidelines we're going to talk about.

[Janis]: So, the first one is you need to alternate who's talking, you need to take turns and each of you needs to talk for approximately 10 minutes. 5 to 10 minutes for some of you that don't talk as much. But the problem is--

[Brent]: Probably more 5 for me.

[Janis]: I might want 15, but I'll stick with 10, which is exactly the issue, because most couples have people where one of them can talk circles around the other. One can talk in detail for a long, long period of time and the other one you go “so, what'd you do today?”; “I went to work”. Not that I would know that from personal--

[Brent]: “How was your day?”; “It was fine”.

[Janis]: Yeah, “It was good”. Yes.

[Brent]: So, I had to move from three words, because she's not just talking about clients here. The-- You know, four or five minutes, you'll generally take 10 or so, but four or five minutes is a lot different than three words. Now, I had to work on that.

[Brent]: I mean, I didn't-- Sometimes I didn't want to talk about it, I just wanted to disconnect from all that. The problem is that's where I spent most of my life.

[Brent]: That's where we spend most of our life, as of work and so, if I was not giving any information, any perspective on my day, it left you kind of clueless.

[Janis]: That's right.

[Brent]: Not knowing what's going on, what are you thinking, how are you feeling about things and so, it's really important that we both share.

[Janis]: And it's going to stretch you in some ways. For the people that tend to talk a lot more, you need to synthesize. “So, this is what went on in my day…” in 10 minutes and not every single detail. But for the person who doesn't talk as much, it's going to stretch you. But that's both of us working together, so that we can connect in a positive and meaningful way.

[Brent]: And we're not saying you've got to keep a timer and you've got to go seven and a half minutes each, but try to get it more balanced.

[Janis]: Yeah. In fact, if you are a person that has to have a timer, just put it away for this because you'll make your spouse really mad.

[Brent]: Yeah. Now, the only thing I've seen a timer work for is if somebody really does just talk on and on and on.

[Brent]: Just for them to kind of self-discipline themselves. You know, they might leave a timer that goes off when “okay, I probably should be done now. I'm overwhelming myself”.

[Janis]: “Oops, okay”.

[Brent]: And so, again, making sure that we're both sharing. Sometimes the person that doesn't talk naturally very well, they might need to start even, because if the other person that that's the talker goes, then we might run out of time or whatever and so--

[Janis]: And we need to remember that people talk at different rates. So, some people talk like… Just one thing after another without a pause, but other people will talk and then pause and talk and pause and so, you're like “are you done yet?” and so, we need to allow people to have the time that they need if they're not normally a talker, so they can really process things.

[Brent]: Yeah. So, don't interrupt and start going on your time, make sure you're done.

[Brent]: So, the second guideline. So, the first one is we take turns, the second one is and I'm telling you, this is probably the most important thing and now, I would say for men and for women, but I would say we guys are the ones that probably have to work on this more. No unsolicited advice. If you want to make sure your partner is going to stop talking, give them a lot of advice, tell them what you think they ought to do with what they just shared with you. It's not why they're sharing.

[Janis]: That's right.

[Brent]: We are simply listening, we're paying attention, we're caring with empathy. The key word is validation, it's “I'm recognizing that what you're experiencing is real to you and that I care about it and that's what we're doing here” and so, the idea of maybe something that they shared that, you know, they were-- Something was going on at work and you want to see if you can help them.

[Janis]: Right, right. So, if I come home from work and say “somebody got mad at me because I was five minutes late”, this is not the time for you to go “well, yeah, you do tend to be late, you need to work on that” or “well, they were just having a bad day, they didn't mean that”. This is the time to say “oh, poor baby, I'm so sorry” or “gosh, that's tough. I'm sorry”.

[Brent]: Yeah, it's again, the key is validation here and I know we've probably talked about validation a little bit before, but one of the most important gifts we can give anybody is just to listen, to embrace what they're sharing, to care about it and to realize that what they're experiencing is true to them and so, I just-- Gosh, I was just-- I'm so sorry, I was so horrible at this. I spent--

[Janis]: Go ahead. Throw out a number, just do it.

[Brent]: Several months in our marriage. Okay, a few years. Okay, a decade or so.

[Janis]: Or so.

[Brent]: Trying to talk Janis out of her feelings. Now, it was because I cared about it.

[Brent]: She was in pain, she was telling me about something difficult that happened and I tried to give her another viewpoint on it and you know, “but that's probably not what they meant” or “this--”, you know, and oh my gosh, as I learned something about this later in life, I just realized how discounting that is, how demeaning and minimizing and invalidating that is. Suggesting that your feelings are not real, they're not legitimate. You're over exaggerating or whatever and such a hurtful thing to do, really damaging and so, I did learn something about this eventually and we had a couple of situations happen early in our marriage and now, they were-- We've been married 44 years and so, some of our memories are a little fuzzy about the beginning, but we know that we had two distinctly different things, but they were very similar. But we can't remember the difference between the two, so I think we should-- I have to share it like, the same exact thing happened--

[Janis]: For how many decades it were apart. Just--

[Brent]: Now, be nice. [Unintelligible] guess is not for you--

[Janis]: I’m just kidding.

[Brent]: And so, basically the idea was or the thing that we remember happening, was that there were three other couples that we kind of hung out with and we, you know, did things social-- This is before kids came along and one day, we heard that the three ladies had planned some kind of an outing. I don't exactly remember what it was and they hadn't invited you and I remember you were pretty mortified. I mean, it was like “what? Did they not--?”

[Janis]: I got voted off the island.

[Brent]: Got voted off the island, right?

[Brent]: I mean, “what happened here? We do this stuff together” and again, I saw the pain that you were feeling like, your friends had just rejected you and I wanted to fix that and I tried and I said stuff like “oh, there's got to be something we don't know about here. There's-- You know, I just-- Just give this time, don't-- I think you're overreacting to this”, which is so helpful to say something like that.

[Janis]: It never goes well in any relationship to say “you're overreacting to something”.

[Brent]: To tell here-- To say “you're overreacting to something” and so, again, that didn't go well, you know? It just-- I think it slowly started shutting down how much you really wanted to even share with me, because you-- I wasn't safe to share with you and so, you kind of had to handle all that stuff together or yourself and so, the time went by, you said decades-- “A few months went by”.

[Janis]: I'm just trying to show that I'm not totally rejected by my friends all the time.

[Brent]: Yes. So, a little bit of time went by and let's say the same thing happened again, something similar, okay?

[Brent]: And I caught myself, I felt the pain and oh my God, I'm still thinking “but there's got to be something we don't know about”. I mean, I'm still thinking all the same stuff, but I didn't say it, I just said “oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. It’s gotta be horrible to feel like your friends just totally--”

[Janis]: “Yes! Yes, it is!”

[Brent]: “Totally just dropped you” and I'm telling you, it was like a miracle happened. Still to this day, I'm still amazed at what validation does. I felt you soften, you kind of came and leaned into me. I think I kind of put my arm around you and I think you said something like “thank you for understanding” and/or like “thanks, yes”.

[Brent]: You know, that kind of thing and I just kind of-- We just sat there. Now, inside I'm thinking “how is this helping? We have not fixed anything yet, we've not come up with the problem, you know? And solved the problem”. I was amazed, but it's really all you needed from me. You didn't need me to fix this.

[Brent]: I think you went on and found out that they had thought we were going to be out of town or something like that and-- But you didn't need me to do that and to fix all that, you just needed to know I was with you, that you weren't alone and I cared about you and cared about what you felt and gosh, it was such a learning for me and I'm still amazed at this day at times, where if I just stop and say “I'm so sorry” or I-- And it kind of resolves and--

[Janis]: And that's what most people are looking for.

[Janis]: They want somebody to show empathy and concern. They just want to know that you're on their team and you know, it's not just between husbands and wives. I mean, many years ago, I remember having kids and one of them got in the car and he was like “oh mom, the guys were saying this and this in the locker room and it really upset me” and of course, being a mom, I wanted to fix it and it was like “what!? Well, where are the teachers? Well, what happened? Well, I'm going to call the principal because we're not going to let that go on anymore” and he was like “Mom, please. Please don't call the principal. Please don't talk to anybody or work it out, I just wanted to tell you what was going on” and it was so good for me, because it was like “oh, this is what Brent feels”.

[Brent]: It was so helpful for me too that experience.

[Janis]: It was a miracle. So, we need to be aware of that. People are really looking for validation and many, many times, they have the ability to work out the problem on their own. They're not looking for advice, unless they say “what do you think I should do about this?” or “do you have any advice?”.

[Brent]: These are the magic words.

[Brent]: And so, we wait.

[Brent]: We let them resolve it. If they need our help-- Now, I do think if we validate first, that I think in those situations, I could have come back a little bit later and said, you know, “you're such a good friend. It's got to be something we don't know about” and I think you could have received it at that point, I think you have received encouragement and you know, in the rest of our life now in those matters, as long as I validate first.

[Janis]: Yeah, timing is very important.

[Brent]: Oh my gosh. So, validate first if you're going to give any encouragement or even an idea of “I wonder if this is what's happening here”. Follow that.

[Brent]: But it's a practice that will-- It'll make such a difference in the relationship and it's such a gift that we can give to somebody, where we recognize-- Even if I don't understand why that affected you that way, it's real to you and a person's real perceptions and their feelings at the time, are their reality and we have to recognize that. The reason I struggled with validation for so long, is because I thought validation meant I had to agree with it. That I had to agree that “yes, your friends have dropped you and life is over as we know it and the world's going to come to an end”, okay? And it didn't mean that, it didn't mean I have to agree with that, it just means I recognize that's what you are feeling at the moment and I care about that and so often in those moments, I've seen you then after that rally and “I'll figure this out, it'll be okay” and-- But you're not alone, I think and I think that's where we get the strength from, right?

[Janis]: It’s huge. Yeah.

[Brent]: So, no advice giving and again, unless you get the magic words of “what do you think I should do about this?” and I would say if you can validate, they're probably going to ask you for your input way more often if they really need it, than they would if you don't validate it. They're not going to ask your opinion on stuff and it'll slowly create disconnection in the relationship.

[Janis]: That’s right. The third thing that we recommend is that you show affection and attention. That means those wonderful little cell phones that we have, they need to go somewhere else.

[Brent]: For those few minutes, yeah.

[Janis]: I often have couples get a basket that they put in their kitchen or something like that and during their couch time, the phones go in the basket. Computers are off, the TV's off, you just look at each other and pay attention to one another. With all of the devices that we have, it's so easy to get distracted. Even if you turn your phone over, there's going to be a notification or like-- Yeah.

[Janis]: There's going to be something. But one of the most important things you can give your partner and really give anybody, is to have that face-to-face communication, where I'm taking time and you are the absolute priority for me right this moment and then affection, be close to each other. Sit right next to each other or right across from each other. Put a hand on their hand or on their arm. Do something that shows “I'm with you in this and you are my attention. I want to give you all of my attention during this time, so you know how valued and how loved you are”.

[Brent]: Now, you gonna have to figure out kind of when to do this. You know, if you've got a little two-year-old, they're probably gonna have to be in bed or they're going to want to be right in the middle of it.

[Brent]: I do think however, that as kids get older and they can kind of be by themselves and you'll have to tell them “This is our time, don't interrupt us. Unless the house is burning down, leave us alone”. But I do think for an older child to walk in the kitchen and get a snack and see mom and dad sitting over there, talking face to face, it's like, it's formative.

[Janis]: It is.

[Brent]: It's very helpful, it's like “oh, that's what moms and dads do, they really look interested in each other, they really are--" Now, they're not thinking these words, but they're really caring about each other. They're making the other person a priority; they have this time where they've told us to go in the other room or they don't have a television on and they're really talking with each other. It can be incredibly formative.

[Janis]: I mean, it goes back to “the more is caught than taught”. Kids will imitate us and sometimes, I'll say to couples, have the kind of marriage you want your kids to have when they get married, because they observe all of that.

[Brent]: Absolutely

[Janis]: And we really got a lot of this from watching my parents when I was growing up. You know, my parents every night that I remember after dinner, they would lay down in front of the fireplace and they would face each other, they would like, put their hand on their-- Put their head on their hand and lay there and they would talk about their day and we knew not to interrupt them, but you know, they might talk about-- I might hear my mom say “well, I'm thinking about getting drapes for the living room that are this color” and my dad might talk about the antique car that he was working on or they just talked about what was happening in their lives and what was so interesting to me, was they worked together.

[Brent]: They ran a business together.

[Janis]: They ran a business together. So, they were together during quite a bit of the day anyway.

[Brent]: Yeah, doing different tasks, right?

[Janis]: Doing different tasks and they reconnected at night and it had a powerful impact on me and I think that's part of what it's caused us, to really take the time in the evening to reconnect.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah. So, that's the third guideline. The fourth guideline is we take our partner's side. We're trying to create an “us against the world” kind of an experience here. We are recommitting that this is the most important relationship that I have in the world. It's more important than us being parents. So, I take your side over children. It's more important than us being kids of parents.

[Brent]: I take your side over parents. It's more important than our job relationship, so I take your side over co-workers and bosses and all those kind of things and so, the way we do this, is if somebody's sharing about-- And I had a couple one time that his mom, his mother had called her right before Thanksgiving and it was like, applying some pressure, you know? That “we're expecting you guys for Thanksgiving” and she's sharing that with husband at their caps time and it's like “I felt like, she was like almost expecting an answer and if we don't show up-- And we had different plans, we were going to do something different this Thanksgiving. She's going to be upset, I feel like she was putting the pressure on me”. Not the time for husband to go “oh, you just always too sensitive to her, that's just not what she means. She's not meaning that”. I just took mom's side over my partner.

[Brent]: We don't do that.

[Janis]: Without meaning to.

[Brent]: Without meaning to. We like “oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you felt pressured by that”. Now, if that brings up a conflict on what we're going to do about Thanksgiving, we talk about that later, but we don't do that during couch time.

[Brent]: We-- I take your side. So, if husband comes home and during couch time, he's sharing that one of his managers in their-- You know, their weekly staff meeting, that there are several other people there in the staff meeting and the boss, basically reamed him out for not getting a report in on time. “You're supposed to have this done, you know, on Friday and I haven't gotten it from you yet” and he's sharing that and wife thinks “well, sometimes he doesn't follow through with stuff the way he should”. This is not the time for that.

[Janis]: No

[Brent]: Not the time to go “Well, you do really you need to work on that, you need to follow through with stuff. He's gotta-- They've got a good point, you know?”. I just took boss's side over my spouse and so, we don't do that. We just “I'm so sorry that-- That had to be so embarrassing. To say that in front of everybody? I'm so sorry”. Now, again, if that creates a conflict, that brings up a conflict about timeliness or something, we talk about that another time. But I'm taking your side right now, these few minutes I'm repositioning myself that you are the most important relationship on the planet to me.

[Brent]: I've had this with kids. You know, a mom or dad says that one of their kids thought that they were being too tough on them and you got really upset at him today and stormed off, you know, and to the neighbor's house because I was being unreasonable and the spoused like “well, you kind of are unreasonable, you know? Well, you are unreasonable to them and you know, you're too hard on them”.

[Janis]: “I've been telling you; you need to stop doing that”.

[Brent]: Exactly. Now, this could be hard, we don't do that right. We like “I'm sorry, I know that's hard” and now, again, that might bring up a conflict, you think they are too hard and so-- But we don't triangulate with the child to get the spouse to act differently, we talk about that another time and say “I want to talk about this. You know, there's kind of a thing about being too tough with the kids and I'm going to talk about that”. But in that moment, again, I'm empathizing with you, I care about you, I'm reorienting, again, this is the most important relationship.

[Janis]: And that can be “wow, that's rough. Oh, I'm so sorry, that's really challenging”.

[Janis]: But it's you and me. I had a great example of this. Many years ago, we had an issue with some people at church, there were some difficulties going on, they weren't happy with something which--

[Brent]: Difficulties at church!?

[Janis]: I know, it's shocking, isn't it? It was a very rare experience and I'm sure no one else--

[Brent]: In 40years of pastoring, we never ever had that.

[Janis]: Yeah, it was crazy. But I have-- I had a really good friend who's-- Have a really good friend who is my confidante, that was a safe person that I could share some things with when I was struggling and so, I remember we were sitting at breakfast one morning and I was sharing with her what was going on and how hard it was and she was like “okay. Get a piece of paper, write down their names and slide it across the table”. Now, you have to realize this person is like, 95 pounds, a little over 5 feet tall and she was like “just give me their names”.

[Brent]: “I have people”.

[Janis]: “I have people. I know people. We can take them out” and, of course, we both died laughing, but it was exactly what I needed to hear, because it was the--- It was saying “I'm so sorry you were hurt and I don't want you to go through that and I wish I could fix it if I could”, in a very funny way. So, Brent, if anything comes up, I know people, I have people, I can take you out-- Take them out, not take you out.

[Brent]: Not take me out, please. So, that's what couch time, that's what reunion is all about. So, we have this parting the morning where we have this-- A minute, really, literally a minute of connection.

[Brent]: We go on our way, we come back. Now, couples that do this most effectively, generally try to do it about the same time, you know, they got to figure this out, you know? Figure out when's gonna work and the kids schedule and the busyness and all that kind of stuff, but if you can do it purposely right, then-- There's some couples without kids that are kind of doing this over dinner at night, but it's just making sure it's more purposeful, it's making sure we both talk, we're validating, we're not giving advice, we're totally focused and again, try it for 30 days. Now, I usually recommend that whoever owns partings, that the other spouse owns this one.

[Brent]: So, they're the one that's going to be the reminder and again, like everything else, we know that we are encouraging you to break into a very packed busy life already with some new habits and so, you're gonna have to really do this so intentional. Usually, the reminder is going to have to set an alarm on their phone that goes off and it buzzes or something. “Okay, it's eight o'clock and we're-- I'm supposed to go find them” and you know, you'll have to do that for 30 days until this becomes more natural for you. Again, if you're together all day on Sunday or whatever, you don't necessarily need to do this. The days that [Unintelligible] the times you’re apart from each other. But if you can get lean into this, we find that you'll get a really good traction. If nobody owns it, it'll be the end of the day and one of you'll go “well, I guess we're not going to do couch time, huh?”; “Well, you didn't say anything”. You know how those things go. I’m sure.

[Janis]: Yeah, or “it's too late now”.

[Brent]: “Too late now”.

[Janis]: “I'm too tired”.

[Brent]: Yeah, and so, somebody talk about the time, somebody would be responsible for it. Lean into this and see how this goes.

[Janis]: It's a choice that you make to invest in your marriage.

[Brent]: Absolutely

[Janis]: Okay. Well, because this episode is right before Valentine's Day.

[Janis]: I really have some Valentine's advice. Remember I've been a marriage counselor as you have for like, 37 years and so, Valentine's Day can be tricky.

[Janis]: So, I have the list and I'm going to read the list, because I don't want to miss any of these, because I do think-- I do think they're important. You know, it's hard because the cultural expectations are so high Valentine's Day. I mean, starting after Christmas. We start to have everything--

[Brent]: Back to magical thinking--

[Janis]: Yes, and all of the ads are “here's what you can get for Valentine's Day for your loved one” and we have that magical thinking where it's “well, if you really loved me, you would know what I need for Valentine's Day” and besides, targets have ads on it forever. So, there are so many options that are out there. But like everything else, we can't read each other's minds, we need to know what they're thinking and what they really want and so, I'm encouraging everybody to sit down and actually have a conversation about “so, what should we do about Valentine's Day? What would you like for Valentine's Day?”. So that you can get a plan and we don't have that guessing thing and we don't have crushed expectations because something doesn't happen.

[Janis]: Now, I encourage you to talk in a calm time, when you have a little few minutes of peace somewhere that you can talk quietly, not when you're in the middle of an argument or you're a little crispy with each other over something. But you talk in a calm time to talk about what our expectations really are and you talk in person. Text, I know everybody wants to do text, it's so easy for you to just send off a text, but if you send a text to your spouse that says “what do you want to do for Valentine's Day?” and they send back “I don't want to do anything” or “let's not do anything this year”. You know, that can mean “I don't want to do anything, let's not do anything this year” or it can mean something like “well, if you're not going to think about something, then just don't bother to do anything” or “the way our relationship is, let's not do anything”. I mean, there's so much, so--

[Brent]: Don’t text.

[Janis]: Yes, don't text. There's just a lot of interpretations of things and we just don't want to misunderstand any of that. It is a commercial holiday and most people are like “well, I don't know that I want to support this, because it's just all about getting people to buy more things”. Yes, it is but, it still is important, it's still meaningful and it's still a chance that we have to show the other person that we love them.

[Brent]: It's a very purposeful opportunity to be intentional.

[Janis]: Exactly

[Brent]: Why not take it as something that helps us in this? And it might kick-start some other things. So, absolutely.

[Janis]: Sure. So, it's worth doing.

[Janis]: But the most important advice that I can say after doing many years of marriage counseling is, do something.

[Brent]: Something

[Janis]: Don't go and say “yeah, I know it's Valentine's Day and I was going to get you roses, but…”, “I was going to get you a card, but this happened” and “I thought about this, but I know you don't really like that”. Do something and you know, generally over the years, we used to-- Yes, we used to talk about, you know, men do something for their wives, but I don't know about you. I'm seen--

[Brent]: I like something.

[Janis]: I know, I know you do, but I'm seen more guys come in for marriage counseling and say “it was our anniversary and she didn't do anything. She didn't do a card, she didn't do anything” and I think the same is true for Valentine's Day and so, we want to do something for your spouse one way or another. You know, one of the things you can do, is you can look at-- If you followed through on last week, love nugget list.

[Janis]: And do several love nuggets on the same day. You know those are things that they're going to really want.

[Janis]: So, I think that's a possible thing that you can do and there is the giving without expecting things in return. That's hard when it's holiday, because it-- You tend to exchange gifts, but we really need to go into this with “this is what I'm doing to show them I love them and I don't have to do it as a competition, I'm doing it with a pure motivation and not expecting something in return”. So, again, doing marriage counseling it's like “I did this and this and this and they did nothing” or you know, “I wanted this and they didn't do it”. Go if you can just with as pure motivation as possible, to give without expecting a response.

[Brent]: Good

[Janis]: Now, I would-- I thought of something I would say. If you have small children, there's a good possibility your spouse wants alone time more than anything. Not just alone time with you, but alone time, alone time and so, it might be good for you just to, instead of buying something, say “you know what? Next Saturday morning I'm gonna let you sleep in and I'll take care of the kids for the time” or “next Sunday afternoon, I want you to have time to just go do anything that you want to do or watch a game or whatever it is”, but sometimes time can be the gift that they need.

[Brent]: Yeah, good. Yes, and so, do you want to talk about the affirmation letter?

[Janis]: Yes, yes, I do as a matter of fact.

[Brent]: So, some time ago we did talk about affirmation and affirming our partner and speaking really positive things to each other and so, that's another one of these-- We did that on a previous, before we started this series and so, we're not going to repeat that, but you've got something that would be really good in this “for Valentine's Day”.

[Janis]: Yes. Sometimes we need a kickstart, sometimes it's like “yeah, I love you and I appreciate you. Thanks for all you do”, but it's not-- It doesn't hit the target.

[Janis]: And so, this is a way where I have a sheet for you, it is--

[Brent]: We’re gonna put it in the show notes.

[Janis]: Yes, so that you can use it and I'd really encourage you to write these out and then read them Valentine's Day to each other. I think it would be helpful. We call it the “Appreciation letter” and it starts with “thank you for the way you always (fill in the blank). You are so cute when you… fall asleep in front of the TV”.

[Brent]: What!?

[Janis]: “Probably the first thing that attracted me to you was… The thing I didn't know about you before we were married that I've been pleasantly surprised by is… The qualities in you that I would want our children to have…. You make my life better by…” and there's just a page of those. It's just one page, but there's a page of those that I encourage each of you to fill out and so, you have a chance to actually think about it, not just do it off the top of your head and then, sit down and go over this together. Just as a reminder of “there's so many wonderful qualities about you and in the busyness of day-to-day life, I forget to say those, but I want you to know how much I do appreciate all of these things about you”.

[Brent]: Yeah, really good. So, again, we can make a difference by just choosing some different kinds of behavior, choosing to be intentional about the way that we love and care for our partner and so, again, Valentine's Day is a great day to kickstart several of these things and so, find a time to kind of talk about these things, maybe try one of these and get it going and then, maybe try another one. But we can make a difference, we-- When couples tell me that they're struggling with not feeling as warm and close and connected or they feel like they've kind of fallen out of love, again, their behaviors changed.

[Janis]: Right

[Brent]: And if-- And we get to be in charge of our behavior. So, we can change this, we can change the trajectory of the closeness and connection, by developing some strategies like this. So, as we go, we trust that you're going to grab a hold of something, put something into play and see what happens.

[Brent]: So, we trust that this is going to be a good year for you. As we go, we so appreciate the opportunity to share with you. Blessings to you and your family. Go in peace.

[Janis]: Amen.