Communication - Part 1 (Episode 14)

This week, Brent and Janis share some lighthearted communication mishaps and the importance of listening. Many times when people talk to us, we only listen to a fraction of what they are saying and react too quickly. We end up misunderstanding each other and get into unnecessary conflicts.

The Life & Love Nuggets podcast will help you learn valuable insights into relationships, life, and love. Brent and Janis have been empowering couples through pre-marriage and marriage therapy in their private practice, Life Connection Counseling, since 1982. They recently retired after forty years of pastoral ministry and are continuing to help individuals, marriages and families in their private practice.

This podcast should not be considered or used for counseling but for educational purposes only.

Transcript:

[Brent]: Hello, friends. Welcome back to Life & Love Nuggets. We're glad you're here today. We're going to talk about a very important topic today, communication. Now, this is communication in all parts of our life. Communication is a big deal. One of the challenges in communication is we have a tendency to interpret people's information, what they're saying, based on what I would have meant if I said that, which we're usually going to misfire that. I remember early in our marriage, one time you said you hated something.

[Brent]: And I was like “what!? You hate it!?”. Because if I said I hated it, I would loathe it, I would just-- It would be the worst thing on the planet.

[Janis]: To test.

[Brent]: To test it, and you just meant-- You didn't-- You know.

[Janis]: I didn't like that.

[Brent]: It wasn’t your favorite, you know, kind of thing and so, we totally misunderstood each other there and so-- Now, as we talked about it, it helped us. We kind of went to language school a little bit. It helped us in that I-- If I heard you say that, I knew what it meant now.

[Janis]: And I tried really hard to never use the word hate, because I really didn't mean hate, hate in that sense.

[Brent]: Yeah, you knew how I might take it.

[Janis]: I knew how you might take it and so, I decided to not use that.

[Brent]: So, we kind of learned that together and communication, again, it's such a big deal. It's whether we actually bond or connect with a person or really have understanding or whether it really keeps us disconnected, and people are communicating in so many different mediums now.

[Brent]: Social media, people are texting each other.

[Janis]: Yes. “Don't text me in that tone of voice”, which we hear that tone of voice, it's not-- A text is neutral, but the way we perceive it is so different.

[Brent]: Yeah, and so, we have people text arguing, you know? Which we say stop it, you know? This is not helpful, because most of communication is non-verbal. It's not even the words that are being said, it's the look, it's the tone of voice, it's the expressions and so-- Now, we could talk about just non-verbal communication. We could talk about styles of communication. We could talk about all different kinds of things. We're going to kind of focus on some practices that we have learned in our own relationship and in our own business and life together in ministry. Some things that have been helpful, some stuff we had to learn the hard way, which pretty much all of our stuff we did.

[Janis]: Pretty much everything we learned the hard way.

[Brent]: Yes, and that's been helpful and so, we're going to take a peek at that in the process, but realize that we do oftentimes just really misfire with people.

[Janis]: And so much of that is because we really speak a different language than our spouses at least.

[Janis]: And probably other people too. But when you look at, we came from totally different backgrounds. We have some male/female differences that are there and we have personality differences that are there. So, of course we're going to misunderstand each other, because everything is filtered through those things in our life. In how we communicate and how we hear what people say.

[Janis]: So, the foundation I would say of communication or one of the basic foundations is really, respect. It's that idea that I count, but you count two.

[Janis]: And what you have to say is very important to me. So, it involves a lot of listening, but it also involves how can we communicate clearly, so that the other person can understand. So, I'll quit saying “hate”-- I did quit saying “hate”. But changing some of our vocabulary with who we're with.

[Janis]: We came across-- A long time ago, but we came across a radio program that we felt was very good in illustrating our differences in communication and how we send and what we receive from someone in communication. Now, I think you said we did get permission for it in our book.

[Brent]: Yes, yes. Our book “The Making of a Marriage”, we kind of reprinted this in there and it kind of shows-- Now, it has to set up some kind of an example with a certain situation.

[Brent]: And it does suggest a male/female kind of thing. We've come to-- We've seen some relationships it's just the opposite of this, some personalities and so, we're not trying to overcook this “all men are this way and all women are this way” by any means, because you do have to look at the environment, the way that we were raised or life experiences, our personalities and all of those kinds of things, to be able to really fully understand. But we thought this was cute and we thought it gave some really good understanding of how we can misfire.

[Janis]: It's an extreme but funny example.

[Janis]: So, let's start with our radio program.

[Brent]: Yes, and so, to set it up, Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine and when he asked her out to a movie, she accepts. They have a good time and enjoy each other's company and a few nights later, he asked her out to dinner. Again, they enjoy themselves, they continue to see each other regularly and after a while, they realize that neither of them is seeing anyone else and then, one evening as they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine and without really thinking about it, she says aloud…

[Janis]: “Do you realize that as of tonight we've been seeing each other exactly six months?”. Silence fills the car. To Elaine it seems like a very loud silence. She begins to think to herself “gee, I wonder if it bothered him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by this relationship. Maybe he thinks I'm trying to force him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want or isn't sure of”.

[Brent]: And Roger is thinking “gosh, it's been six months”.

[Janis]: And Elaine is thinking “but hey, I'm not so sure I want a serious relationship either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so that I'd have time to think about, whether I really want us to keep going the way we are moving steadily toward-- Where are we going? Are we going to keep seeing each other at this pace? Are we headed toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a life together? Am I really ready for that kind of commitment? Do I even know this person?”.

[Brent]: And Roger is thinking “six months. Huh, that means it was about February when we went out, right after I had taken the car into the dealership, which means-- Let me check the odometer. Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change!”.

[Janis]: Meanwhile, Elaine is thinking “he's upset, I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong, maybe he does want more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment. Maybe he sensed even before I sensed it that I was feeling some kind of reservation. Yes, I bet that's it, that's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected”.

[Brent]: And Roger is thinking “I'm going to have them look at the transmission too. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not shifting right, and they better not blame it on the cold weather. What are they talking about!? Cold weather? It's 87 degrees out! This thing is shifting like a garbage truck and I paid those incompetent thieves $600 bucks!”.

[Janis]: And Elaine is thinking “he's angry. I don't blame him; I'd be angry too. Oh, I feel so guilty putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel, I'm just not sure”.

[Brent]: And Roger is thinking “they'll probably say it only has a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're going to say, those dingbats!”.

[Janis]: And Elaine is thinking “maybe I'm just too idealistic waiting for a night to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person. A person I truly care about, a person who seems to truly care about me, a person who is in pain because of my self-centered school girl fantasy”.

[Brent]: And Roger is thinking “warranty!? They want a warranty!? I'll give them a warranty!”.

[Janis]: “Roger”

[Brent]: Startled says “what!?”

[Janis]: “Please don't torture yourself like this. Maybe I should had never have said. Oh, I feel so--”. Elaine breaks down sobbing.

[Brent]: “What?”

[Janis]: “I'm such a fool. I mean, I know there's no night, I really know that. It's silly. There's no night and there's no horse”.

[Brent]: “There's no horse?”.

[Janis]: “You think I'm a fool, don't you?”.

[Brent]: Allowed glad to finally know the right answer, Roger says “no!”

[Janis]: “It's just-- It's just that-- I need some time”.

[Brent]: There's a 15 second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally, he comes up with what-- With one he thinks might work. “Yes”.

[Janis]: “Oh Roger, do you really feel that way?”. Elaine is deeply moved and she reaches over and touches Roger's hand.

[Brent]: “What way?”

[Janis]: “That way about time”.

[Brent]: “Oh… Yes”.

[Janis]: Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last, she speaks. “Thank you, Roger”.

[Brent]: “No, thank you”. Roger takes Elaine home, where she lies on her bed. A conflicted tortured soul awake until dawn. On the other hand, when Roger gets back to his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV and immediately becomes involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he's never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind, tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he's pretty sure that there's no way that he would ever understand what it was and so, he figures it's best if he just not thinks about it. This is also Roger’s policy regarding world hunger.

[Janis]: The next day Elaine will call her closest girlfriend or perhaps two of them, and they will discuss the situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything he said and everything she said, going over it time and time again. Exploring every word, expression and gesture for nuance of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss the subject on and off for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it either.

[Brent]: Meanwhile, Roger while playing tennis one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine’s, will pause just before serving, frown and say “Bill, did Elaine ever own a horse?”.

[Janis]: This is an extreme example, but obviously it shows that we’re poor listeners and we tend to assume what the other person is thinking.

[Janis]: So, we have to be careful to really learn their language and learn how to communicate clearly and listen.

[Brent]: Yes. So, we many years ago, again, as we've said, all things we've shared with couples over the last 40 years, the stuff we had to learn the hard way. We were in graduate school at this time learning some of this stuff, but we had an interesting situation one day that happened. This-- Been married a couple years or maybe just a year or so, and we had just bought our first brand new car. Very proud of it.

[Janis]: A 1978 Toyota Celica hatchback, chocolate brown, orange pinstripe. What are they called in the back?

[Brent]: Little fins on the back.

[Janis]: Fins on the back. I mean, it was very, very cool.

[Brent]: Five speed. Very, very cool. We thought [Unintelligible]. I think it was $138 or $164, whatever it is, you know?

[Janis]: I think it was $138.

[Brent]: $138 dollars a month.

[Janis]: Which was huge.

[Brent]: It's like, you know, humongous amount for us at the time. But it was-- We were pretty happy and then one day, this is where some serious miscommunication happened for us. We were both working full-time, Janis was working in an administration office of a university and it was just-- You know, I had a bunch of-- You know, she was supervising a bunch of men. Let's say this was back in the late 70s, early 80s.

[Brent]: And wasn't quite getting the respect that she had hoped and one day, was just really distraught, and came home one day and said something like…

[Janis]: “I hate that job; they don't respect me. It's not fair, I'm not getting paid enough money to be in this job. I'm miserable there. I am so out of there. I can't keep working with these kind of people” and on and on and on.

[Brent]: Yeah, and I heard a lot of feelings, you know? Feel disrespected, unappreciated.

[Brent]: Just all kind of stuff. Now, at that time in my life, I didn't get all of that. Hey, I'm thinking “she's going to quit her job. What--? We just bought-- We just bought our first car. I mean, what's she thinking?”. This is going through my mind. I didn't say that, I was-- I listened to everything that she had to say.

[Janis]: He looked like he was listening.

[Brent]: But I had stopped listening quite a while ago, thinking that you're gonna quit your job and I can see the-- You know, the repo truck, you know, coming up to the-- Up to the front of the dormitory where we lived, you know, at the time and repoing the car and I mean, that's what I had in my mind, and I'm thinking “how do we get you to not quit your job?”. So, I said something like-- I thought it was a very helpful-- Appreciate--. You know, something that was kind of a fix-it statement. “Well, this is-- Honey, it's gonna be okay. This is what you need to do: you need to go talk to your supervisor and say this, this, this, and this. If that doesn't work, then just-- We need to, you know, go to the next person in line and you can do this. If that doesn't work, then I know a person in another department, we might be able to get you transferred”. So, I'm thinking I'm helpful.

[Janis]: You're going to fix it.

[Brent]: I'm going to fix it.

[Janis]: Which I didn't need anyone to fix it; I knew what needed to be done. But what I felt like he was saying, was he didn't want me to quit my job because he didn't want to lose our car and so, it felt like he was not concerned about how I was feeling that particular day at all.

[Brent]: So, all I cared about was her paycheck and our car.

[Janis]: Yes. Well, see? Now you admit it.

[Brent]: That's what you thought I was saying?

[Janis]: That's what I thought you were saying.

[Brent]: Yes, yes, and-- So, you said something that I remember had a little zip in it, you know? It was a little bit of “you don't care about me”. You know, something like that. Well, I didn't listen-- I didn't hear much of that because it startled me and you said a bunch of stuff there, but I kind of stopped listening thinking “well, she's not appreciative. I've got-- I almost have this fixed, I'm gonna help her life and help her feel better and this is gonna be good”.

[Janis]: It's a miracle.

[Brent]: Yeah, and so, I said something back, you know? Because--

[Janis]: Which I stopped listening to almost immediately.

[Brent]: Yes, and then she zinged me back with something and I zinged her back for something and we're really sad to say that this-- I remember this like an hour and a half, Janis remembers this like--

[Janis]: Closer to three.

[Brent]: Three hours, probably the balance of the day.

[Janis]: And in every room of the house.

[Brent]: We followed each other. Oh my gosh.

[Janis]: We followed each other, and one more thing. I'm sure none of you could relate to any of that--

[Brent]: No, no, no. Yes, and so-- And, you know, it calmed down a little bit, it would start back up again and at the end of three hours-- I'll go with your time frame.

[Janis]: Okay, thank you,

[Brent]: At the end of the time, we found out we didn't even have a conflict, we had a serious misunderstanding. I found out you are not planning to quit your job.

[Janis]: Not right then.

[Brent]: You know, you may want to start looking for something or whatever, but you weren't going to quit that night, okay?

[Brent]: You found out I wanted you to be happy, I didn't want you working at a job that you didn't feel respected in or appreciated in. I just rather you not quit tonight, you know? But it took us three hours to find out we didn't even have a conflict.

[Brent]: And what a lot of people find is that significant misunderstanding feels like conflict. It's just misunderstanding.

[Brent]: And so, as we tracked back-- You know, because we came to a couple conclusions. One was if we want to stay married, we better figure out how to not keep doing this or we're going to kill each other, okay?

[Brent]: And then, we were both halfway through our graduate degrees to become marriage and family therapists. It’s like “if we want to help anybody else stay married, we better figure out what in the world is going on here”.

[Janis]: And we've since found out that a lot of couples go through very, very similar situations.

[Brent]: Yes, and so, we started tracking this, we started looking at it and going “what in the world was happening here and how do we change this?” and so-- Now, if we had diagrammed this on a board and looked at all the interruption points-- Now, again, I don't think either one of us literally interrupted the other person, but we mentally were interrupting. I just stopped listening and I'm thinking about now what I'm going to say next, which we don't do both. We can't listen and think about what we're saying next at the same time and so-- But if you looked at that and you look at the amount of words that were spoken and actually landed, we actually received by the other person, it was maybe 20%. No wonder we had a misunderstanding.

[Brent]: And so, we knew real quickly we were going to have to learn how to listen longer and longer and longer, before we engaged in response, giving an answer. I need the whole information first before I can properly respond to you. But you know, I think we came to that understanding and then promptly looked at each other and go “well, but we're no good at this”. I mean, how do you-- We're not just going to go “oh, great idea! Let's just start listening to each other better!”.

[Janis]: I’ll listen to you a long time even though I'm very emotional right now.

[Brent]: Yeah. That’s just not going to happen.

[Brent]: So, we needed something that would engage our brain to actively listen. That would move us towards what you're saying is the most important thing that's going on right now and that's what I need to focus my brain on, instead of focusing on what I'm going to say next. Again, easier said than done. But what helped us do that, we begin to also understand that all of us communicate out of one or two-- Out of three different parts of awareness. That we have three major parts of awareness.

[Brent]: We have thoughts, we have feelings and we have wants. Most of us communicate out of one or two of those. Certainly, we see this in marriage, where oftentimes the other person communicates out of one or two of the other ones and so, we're speaking Chinese and Latin, I mean, two totally different things. No wonder we're misunderstanding, we're on different wavelengths and so, we’re going to have to learn how to move around that triangle. So, what was it, what I was experiencing, is I was very unaware of feelings at that time in my life. You were-- You’re just shocked for me to even say that, I know.

[Brent]: I couldn't have told you what I felt, therefore I didn't give much value to what you felt and I was going to explain to you why you shouldn't feel that way, and you took it wrong or you misunderstood or whatever, and so, you were communicating feelings. I didn't communicate on that level. I received that as thoughts because if I had said what you said, I would have been planning on quitting my job. I would have had my resume together already.

[Brent]: You know, the next words out of my mouth is “okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to quit Friday and I'm going to do this, this and this”. That's not what you meant and so--

[Janis]: I was venting.

[Janis]: And when somebody vents, generally there's a lot of emotion that's involved with that. Not necessarily what they plan on doing, but there was a lot of emotion. But I didn't express to him that I was venting, I just came in and went “what!? Here it is”.

[Brent]: And even the wants that you communicate were just venting, it wasn't a real clear “this is what I want to do”.

[Brent]: And the thoughts, like little pieces of thoughts, but it was mostly emotion and I received it as thoughts, I responded in thoughts. You’re communicating feelings, I'm communicating thoughts. Again, we're not on the same wavelength. So, we learned that we were going to have to move around this triangle, that we're going to have to both learn how to listen for all three of these, that all of these have value and we're going to have to learn how to communicate all three of these.

[Brent]: And in the midst of that-- So, it's almost as if we have to learn-- If we put these at the points of a triangle, if we diagrammed it that way, it's as if the sender/receiver kind of has to go through that triangle. So, we communicate through these three parts, we listen through these three parts and that's how we found how to hear each other better and how to understand better, and now, we're not suggesting that every conversation we have we're gonna have to cover all three of these. I mean, that would be a bit overkill, okay? But we found that certainly in marital communication and I think in other significant communication, if we're not paying attention to these, then we're going to kind of misfire a bit, you know?

[Brent]: And so, one of the things that we want to leave with you today, because we're going to come back next time and we're going to unpack these three parts, and we're going to give some-- I know you know what these words mean, but we're going to give some understanding of what these are about and-- That I think are key to listening and hearing clearly and then, we're going to talk about how do we actually use these in day-to-day conversations. We're not going to have you diagram triangles and you know, each other's sentences all the time.

[Janis]: But we could have some triangles available and we could sell them for $9.99.

[Janis]: $9,99. Get your free triangle. Not free! See? I can't even sell!

[Brent]: Yeah, and so, as we go today, this part of-- I want you to start just listening a little differently. Think about the parts. Whoever you're communicating with, if it's your children, if it's your spouse, if it's a roommate, if it's people at your work, try to start picking out the parts. “Are these thoughts or--? Oh, that was a feeling or maybe they've shared a want”. See if you can't start picking out the parts and just start paying attention to those. That is the first step towards engaging and active listening, because if you are listening to pick out the parts, you can't be thinking about what you're going to say next.

[Brent]: You have to be focused on what they're saying.

[Janis]: Let me say this though, about feelings. Oftentimes when I have clients that I'm working with, somebody will talk and I'll go “I've heard a lot of thoughts and wants, but I'm not hearing a lot of feelings”. So, just like, a heads up, because oftentimes I'll say “let's hear some feelings” and they'll say “I feel that”. If it's “I feel that”, it's not a feeling. A feeling is an emotion, happy, sad, angry, content, calm, those are the emotions. So, keep that in mind.

[Brent]: Yeah. Now, some people say “I feel like”, which is the same as “I feel that”, you know?

[Brent]: And so, again, it has to be an emotion word, so start trying to pick out the emotion words and also, realize that some of that communication is non-verbal and so, we can start picking up an emotion even non-verbally. So, just start listening more actively and next time, we're going to come back and we're going to take this to another level. So, for today, go in peace. Bless you as you go.