The Challenges of Mother’s Day (Episode 20)

Mother’s Day, like most holidays, can be a day of celebration, joy, pain or grief or for many people, a mixture of these. Brent and Janis will be talking about the various aspects of Mother’s day and give some suggestions on coping skills to help yourself and how to be sensitive to others who may have a difficult time on this holiday.

The Life & Love Nuggets podcast will help you learn valuable insights into relationships, life, and love. Brent and Janis have been empowering couples through pre-marriage and marriage therapy in their private practice, Life Connection Counseling, since 1982. They recently retired after forty years of pastoral ministry and are continuing to help individuals, marriages and families in their private practice.

This podcast should not be considered or used for counseling but for educational purposes only.

Transcript:

[Brent]: Hello, friends. Welcome back to Life & Love Nuggets. We're glad that you're here today. We find ourselves in the middle of a very interesting season in our culture, coming up to this holiday, Mother's Day. it's just interesting because it has kind of two sides to it. It can be one of the most wonderful times of celebration and rejoicing and memories for some, and for others, it can be incredibly painful.

[Janis]: Incredibly.

[Brent]: Yeah, and oftentimes we maybe aren't aware of that, and as sensitive as we need to be about that. Many of you had really great memories of mom, whether she's still alive or not, that you just felt like that she was very nurturing, and just have these just wonderful memories. I was blessed with that. My mom is almost 92 now, and for all of my life, I felt like she was always just cheering me on, she was always encouraging me, every phone conversation. We lived-- All my adult life lived a long way away from her, but we'd talk every week, and I felt like just this constant nurturing. “You can do it. Feel positive about you. So proud of you and what you're doing” and now as a pastor and counselor for almost 40 years and seeing the impact of mothers in people's lives, oh my word, so thankful for this.

[Janis]: Yeah

[Brent]: I mean, it just is such an incredible gift. It was probably the closest thing that I think anybody could receive of really unconditional love and so, so blessed. We have girls that are moms.

[Janis]: Yes. It's just a beautiful thing to watch.

[Brent]: Six grandbabies and many of you may be a mom, and you're having a great time. Now, our wonderful daughters get a bit-- They got little bitties.

[Janis]: Little bitties.

[Brent]: And so, they get kind of tired and overwhelmed, but you can tell that their children are such a joy.

[Janis]: Absolutely, as they were. As all of our kids were to me.

[Brent]: Absolutely. However, this might be one of the most painful times of the year for you because you didn't have that, you had a very difficult experience with your mother or you've desired to be a mother, and it's just not happening and so, there's a lot of grief and sadness. So, how do we be aware of both of these? How do we hold both of these in tension with each other? In essence, that there are some people going through this holiday where it's positive and some where they just want to stay at home and hide themselves because of the pain.

[Brent]: So, I think it's so powerful because this relationship that we had with mom, one of the challenges is anything that- -We always say that anything where there's deep love, there's also potential of deep pain and so, this is a relationship that was designed to be one of the most nurturing and loving and caring.

[Janis]: Honoring

[Brent]: And honoring relationships there is and that there was a bond, obviously, that God designed and God's plan, I believe. Here we are talking about God's plan. We're little pea brains, okay? Trying to understand God. But from our perspective, I think God's plan was that our moms would feel so deeply loved by Him, that they would feel so nurtured by God's love, that they would be able to naturally pass that on and it would imprint in all of us this sense of intrinsic value. That I am good, I am valuable, I'm significant, just because I've been loved so deeply and so, we wouldn't spend all of our life trying to get love, trying to get this need met and we've seen many people do all kinds of things to try to get this need met.

[Brent]: And so, again, anything that has such incredible power for good, unfortunately can harm us more than any other thing that we'll ever experience and so, it's just one of the challenges and the risk of life. So, today we're going to talk about how do we manage Mother's Day if it brings pain into your life. Now, next week I'm going to turn it over to you, and you're going to talk about just this most cherished of all roles in life of being a mom.

[Janis]: Yes

[Brent]: But let's start with just how painful this can be for some people.

[Janis]: I think it's an important thing to talk about, because even if you don't have pain with Mother's Day, it helps you understand what other people are experiencing.

[Brent]: Yeah, that’s right.

[Janis]: And it can help all of us be more empathetic to the people around us and not just glibly say “Happy Mother's Day” to somebody that really is in pain. So, you know, all holidays can be emotionally challenging and can be emotionally difficult. We talked about that when we talked about-- So, you're going home for the holidays, you're going to see family for the holidays, so they can all be difficult. I was really glad to get emails from various companies that said “would you like to opt out of our Mother's Day emails? Because we recognize this is a difficult time for many people” and I thought how great that is.

[Brent]: Wisdom. Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: Yeah, our culture is actually recognizing that, so people don't get bombarded with things that do cause pain. So, Mother's Day can be hard. It can cause grief. You know, maybe because you had a difficult relationship with your mom, maybe because you desperately want to be a mom, and it looks like it's just not going to happen. There's a number of different reasons. Maybe you've had a miscarriage or a stillborn or you've lost a child. All of those can bring up significant pain throughout the year. But especially on Mother's Day, it just causes so much pain. Maybe that your mom's passed away, she's no longer with you, and you miss that physical presence of having a mom, of being able to call mom when something happens, just to get comfort and encouragement.

[Janis]: I think most of us as adults have had times where we go through a difficult time, and it's like “I just want to call my mom” and so, it's hard when your mom is no longer around. So, we do want to talk about the difficulties, but also some coping strategies during this particular time. So, we're going to explore it from different angles. Hang in there with us, if one of these topics doesn't apply to you, we'll probably hit one that does either this week or next week. So, hang in there with us as we go through.

[Brent]: And again, even if they don't experience it personally, they're going to be around people in their family or in church or whatever that are going to experience some of these things.

[Janis]: Yeah. So, let's talk. What do you do with Mother's Day when you've had a flawed mom or a difficult relationship with your mom? When they don't look like the Hallmark movie moms or the Target ad moms? Life wasn't as peachy as we so often see it on TV. You know, I work with people who came from very dysfunctional families, and mom, with her own stuff, with her own issues, with the woundedness she had in her life, was not imprinting the good that you got from your mom and so, they struggle.

[Brent]: Right, yeah.

[Janis]: They struggle with “why did I have a mom like this? and what do I do with Mother's Day in the midst of this? It feels so painful and yet, shouldn't I, like, go get a card for her?”. I mean, oftentimes have clients say “you know, my mom was so toxic, but I feel really guilty if I don't do anything. But then I don't know what to do and so, I'm left kind of in this guilt and in this difficult situation”.

[Janis]: So, to be fair to moms-- That shouldn't have been a so. But to be fair to moms, you know, parenting is hard. It's hard to be a mom.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: All of us have made all kinds of mistakes as moms, and we will, because we're flawed human beings. But-- You know, I always make the joke of-- You've heard me say this.

[Brent]: Yes

[Janis]: I kept a journal when my kids were growing up of all the situations that occurred with my kids. Not really, I'm joking.

[Brent]: All the mistakes that we made.

[Janis]: All the mistakes that we made. So, when they go to their therapist, I have a whole another side to it. It just makes me feel bad.

[Brent]: She didn't realize what they were doing.

[Janis]: Yes. Well, she wasn't the easiest to get along with either, you know?

[Brent]: Right, right.

[Janis]: But all joking aside, really, mothering is a wonderful experience, but it can be a damaging experience at times to kids. Now, if you're a mom right now, please don't panic over this. Please don't feel any fear or condemnation. You're doing the best that you can, and chances are really good that your kids are not going to turn out horrible, and you won't have to keep notes for their therapist. So, let go of any anxiety that just happened when we started talking about the impact of moms on our lives.

[Janis]: So, we have to walk in grace for ourselves and for our moms and know that they all did the best that they could, just like we're all doing the best that we can based on our past experiences. We're all trying. We're all trying to do good. But when mom has her own issues because of insecurities or wounds or mental illness or addiction, Mother’s Day can be very, very painful for their kids. It goes back to that “you know, other people seem to have good moms, why didn't I deserve that? How come I didn't get that particular thing? It hurts” and they often will say, “was I not worthy of that?”. To which I respond to my clients “yes, absolutely, you were. Everybody's worthy of that. But unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't always occur”. So, in spite of the pain, in spite of the hardness of this, we can heal and it's remembering that we don't have to be bound by things from our parents. We can be healed; we can be restored, whatever happened with our parents. If we allow ourselves to be open to what God's doing, he can really bring out good. It's what we've been talking about the last few sessions of that shadow side.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: You know, a lot of that shadow side is developed in relationship with our parents and with other people in our lives. So, if we can accept the fact that God can bring healing, he can bring something different, he wants to work in us to do that. It's probably going to mean counseling. Oftentimes it takes getting to adulthood, to where we realize that we need to get some help to work through some of our past issues. Could be messages. You know, a lot of times we've-- We’ve taken myths all the time, but we've taken messages out of our childhood and maybe mom said something about your body or “you're so selfish” and we have to start identifying what those messages are and recognizing they're not truth even though they feel like it. It's just very hard when it came from your mom. So, the scripture that I like to use for a lot of my clients is-- Is 2 Peter 1:3. “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and Godliness, through our knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and goodness”.

[Brent]: So, we don't have to have perfect parents, we don't have to be perfect parents for life to go well. You know, again, one of the reasons this is so powerful in our life is because-- Obviously, it's from birth, it's during these very formative years in our life that, if there were even subtle messages of what we're not enough of, we're not good enough at, and even parents trying to get us to act right, oftentimes we're shaming or whatever.

[Janis]: Very well-meaning parents.

[Brent]: Yeah, very well-meaning, but sent some messages to us that were just really damaging and so, again, as little people, we just assume it's us. “Well, they're big people, they know everything”. They're almost godlike when they’re-- When we're little bitty, they take care of us completely and so, we just soak it in and we take it in and we believe those lies and so, it's beginning to come against those, recognize those, push back at those. But we just want to remind people that regardless of what's happened, that God is not limited. I always believe that nothing can set you off course from what God's best is for your life because of outside influence. That yes, we're going to be impacted by that and we're not saying it's going to be easy, but we do get to choose. Ultimately, we have to move through the control and the impact that those powerful relationships have on us and find a new path forward and it's possible, it's what we're suggesting, as we believe it’s possible.

[Janis]: It is possible.

[Brent]: And not end up just blaming, because that's where people get stuck, is I just blame them “well, because of this, because of that”, then we're somehow limited.

[Janis]: We can put so much energy into having arguments or things that we want to say to someone or to our parents, swirling around in our mind over and over again for years, that it paralyzes us and it keeps us from really getting the healing that we need to have. But boy, that tendency to “but I want to tell them this” is very strong.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah, and unfortunately, we have some people that are still being controlled or impacted by these messages from people that are dead.

[Janis]: Yeah.

[Brent]: So, people that are not even here any longer are still controlling us. This is not God's best. This is not something that we have to live with. God has a way for us to move forward from that. Now, on a lighter note, we've oftentimes thought about--

[Janis]: Yes. Yeah, that got really dark.

[Brent]: Yeah. We often thought that there should be a, you know, we might need to develop our own line of greeting cards. 

[Janis]: Because it's hard. It’s hard to pick out a Mother's Day card.

[Brent]: Oh my gosh, yes.

[Janis]: Most of them are like “you were always there for me. I could always count on you”.

[Brent]: Yes, all of those things that just sound so nice that we just can't-- People find themselves having a hard time signing their name too. Right? So, actually, you came up with these-- So, something that says “I'll never forget my childhood and the influence you had in my life”. Saying it very much a truth, but yet, something that they could hear and they might read it totally different, right?

[Janis]: Yes.

[Brent]: “I am who I am today because of you. Your legacy will live on for generations in our family” and even though we're thinking, “oh my gosh, the dysfunctional stuff that you said will live on for generations”. “Everything I learned about love and relationships, I learned from you”.

[Janis]: Ouch

[Brent]: Now, obviously, we're not suggesting these, this is very passive-- Passive aggressive.

[Janis]: And so, are you suggesting that I wrote those so easily because I tend to be passive aggressive?

[Brent]: I don't know, I don’t know, but they seem to just kind of tumble out of your mouth pretty easily.

[Janis]: Well, they came pretty easy. Yeah.

[Brent]: Oh dear. It does speak to how powerful the influence is, however, we would take any of those for good or for bad. This is a powerful relationship and so, if we're struggling with that, don't be surprised if we're thinking of messages that we received when we were five or eight or ten, and it still impacts me today in how I feel ashamed of certain things in my life or I feel like I've messed up again or I feel guilty or whatever. Don't be surprised about this. This is how God made us for our brain to be wired and formed as little people and, again, his goal was that it would be good.

[Janis]: Yes

[Brent]: That our brain would be formed in this good imagination of value and significance and love, but the risk is always that we can be really, really harmed by this and so, we do look to-- I mean, we just came out of Easter, this resurrection moment where-- Because of the resurrection, Jesus made all things new meaning, that there's the potential of new fresh beginnings in our life and the old can pass away and we can step into the new, because of the suffering of Jesus taking the wade of death and sin of the world. He took it all upon himself, all brokenness, all dysfunction, the worst of humanity, he suffered under it. So, he knows our pain, he knows how significant this is and I would think he would say to all of us “I'm with you. I get this. I understand what this feels like” and yet, somehow he conquered it and he came out on the other side of it, and he can help us take all of our stuff and all of our brokenness and all of our-- Even current dysfunction that we've picked up and turn a corner with that. So, that's what we're believing. That's what we're trusting in.

[Janis]: And the thing that I thought about as you were talking is, even science has shown we can change. We now have found that we have neuroplasticity and we have the ability to change our brain and so, we can change those thought patterns, and that's encouraging. Aside from the faith, I mean, it's encouraging to know-- Even the scientists are telling us that we can have change no matter what happened before.

[Brent]: Yeah, and we have to be patient with that, because even when we were formed as little people, it took time.

[Janis]: Yes

[Brent]: These messages were said over and over and over again and so, we have to recognize to turn a corner and believe something different is going to take time. We don't have a little dial behind our ear that we go “oh, my gosh, now I know that message was unhealthy. That was not true, so I'm going to just dial that, so I won't believe that anymore”.

[Janis]: At least we haven't found one.

[Brent]: We haven’t found one yet.

[Janis]: And if we know of somebody, we could-- We could like, give up counseling completely, we just turn the dial on people and life would be good.

[Brent]: So, the way we change is we recognize the way we're thinking or acting is unhealthy, and we turn a corner and we realize “this is how I want to live” and we move in that direction for a long period of time and change can happen. But that's what we're trusting in, that change can happen.

[Janis]: Yeah. One of the things that I find is clients over and over again will go “if I can just find a mother figure” and they go chasing after finding a mother figure, because they feel like they need to have that person in their lives to help them rewrite what's going on. Now, it would be great. I mean, and some people do. Some people find another figure and God uses that person to bring healing and wholeness in your life.

[Brent]: Yeah, sometimes that does and if you can find a safe, loving person like that, that you can connect with, that can be helpful, but it's not always going to happen.

[Janis]: It's not always easy to find and so, what I find is that people put off their healing, they put off working on their stuff because it's “well, I'm going to find that person one day and things are going to be better” and so, that's why I just encourage people to just turn to God in this. He can heal better than a mother figure can heal and so, really turn to Him and watch Him meet some of the needs that you have.

[Janis]: So, what do I do on Mother's Day when my relationship with mom is really difficult? One thing I tell people is, just acknowledge the lost yourself. It's hard when you see other people celebrating their moms and saying “it's the best relationship in my life” and you don't feel that. It might be a good time for you to write a letter to your mom. Now, I would recommend you not send it if it's not a very nice letter.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: But I do think we have to have the opportunity to get some of those emotions out and to let ourselves go “I don't like the way my childhood was. I need to get rid of some of this stuff and turn a corner”. So, writing is good, sending is not.

[Brent]: Yes, yes.

[Janis]: It's a way to get out some of those feelings.

[Brent]: Yeah. Now, if she's still alive, acknowledging that she's mom and maybe sending something. Again, not that letter, but something can be helpful. It could be a card or something very simple. Now, again, probably not one of the pre-printed cards because that's not going to feel genuine, that's not going to feel honest. So, it might be a blank card and you might think of, was there something helpful that you did learn from her? You know, whether she taught you how to cook or how to manage your finances or how to be tenacious in getting a project done and being able to say “thank you for that that you passed on to me” and that's all you have to say. You don't have to-- You know, we don’t have to go into all kind of flowery stuff, but sometimes that can be helpful or just simply “thanks for giving me life, that God did use this vessel to bring me life and so, I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful that I've had a life, that I have opportunity”.

[Brent]: Now, there may be some that the relationship is so toxic that it's still going-- You know, obviously their lives still and it's so toxic, that even reaching out to them-- So dysfunctional that you've had to set up really strong boundaries.

[Janis]: Yeah

[Brent]: And it's okay to not send anything. It just is what it is and you can't fix it. You know, scripture says “as much as it's up to us, live at peace with all men”. Well, some people are not peaceable and if there is a toxicity where there's been an invasion from home into your life and trying to tell you how do you ought to parent your kids or how you ought to do this or whatever, and we just can't engage with them right now, then do nothing. It's okay.

[Janis]: Because oftentimes to do something opens the floodgate and it’s--

[Brent]: It’s really [Unintelligible]. Yeah. The next thing is you need to then plan something to do for yourself. You are grieving and this is a deep loss. This is not what you thought and hoped Mother's Day would ever look like and so, it's like a death, and you're going to be going through all of those emotions of grief and so, develop something new that you can do on that day. Find a new outing, a new experience, maybe even with your family, or even if it's just yourself, some new memory that you can develop.

[Janis]: Maybe it's a hiking day where you take a picnic, or maybe it's a day where you get together with friends and go “let's just go to the zoo”.

[Brent]: Yeah, good, and so, something that next year you can remember “oh, that's what we do on Mother's Day. We take a little trip, we go hiking, we do this, we do that” and so, you're developing a new way of memories and developing-- You're basically reclaiming that day in your life.

[Janis]: Uh huh, and creating new tradition.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: Yeah, you also need to remind yourself that though moms play a huge role in our lives, as I've said before, god's not limited by the kind of mom that we have. God can heal even a mother wound. No matter what you have going on, he can heal that. You know, Mother's Day can also be difficult if you're grieving the loss of your mother through death. Moms, as we've said, are important. There's a reason why so many Disney movies don't have mothers.

[Brent]: Wow, it’s so fascinating.

[Janis]: You know, it always bothered me when the kids were little, it was like “so, where's the mom?”.

[Brent]: And the mom died.

[Janis]: In Cinderella-- Right? I mean, yeah, it's like “what happened here?”. But I think it's because that's the worst loss that a child can have.

[Brent]: Yeah, absolutely.

[Janis]: And so, that's where Disney had some of the drama in it, because they were living alone without a mom. Even as an adult, the loss of a mom is huge. Even if she's very old and she had a good life. Brent's mom is 92, and she's one of the sweetest and most giving women that I have ever met. But we also know she can't last forever and so; we're dealing with anticipatory grief. It’s-- She's 92. We would love for her to live to be 105 if she was comfortable.

[Brent]: Right

[Janis]: But it's hard. It's hard. Even anticipatory grief can be very difficult. When you've had-- When you’ve lost your mom or a close mother figure, it's time to reflect on the good things that they've added to your life, but there's still going to be sadness. Even if we write out all of the characteristics that are good about our moms, there's still going to be that sense of loss when you have left them. You know, some churches-- When they have left you. Some churches actually have people bring a rose on Mother's Day to put up front, to recognize their mom or some kind of plant. I think it's good to have something at your home that recognizes your mom that has passed on, just in a way of honoring her. Maybe it'd be good to plant a bush or a flower or something that just says “I'm doing this. I'm doing this to celebrate my mom”. Even though it's difficult, even though it's challenging. But remember, we'll say this a million times throughout our podcast, it's okay to grieve.

[Brent]: Yeah

[Janis]: Grief is a normal part of life, and it's okay to grieve.

[Brent]: Yeah. Another thing that Mother's Day brings up is that, for women that have not been able to have children, that whether that's been through miscarriage, infertility. Certainly, we've had some moms that have actually lost-- Their children have died, which is not supposed to happen.

[Janis]: No

[Brent]: You know, they're supposed to outlive us. It's not supposed to happen and these times are so difficult and, again, we've talked about this in a previous podcast, but our culture just doesn't know how to grieve. It doesn't leave space for grief. We're supposed to just be always hopeful and always believing everything's going to be okay and that there must be a reason for this. All these things are just not helpful, and you're going to have well-meaning people around you that don't know what to do with it, and they're trying to comfort you, they're trying to say something, you know, like “well, there must be a reason for this” or these kinds of things, because they just don't know what to say, and it just makes it worse. We've talked about series of miscarriages that we went through and how difficult that was, and people saying stuff that was not helpful, and it really-- We just had to find a few people.

[Janis]: Yeah

[Brent]: And so, reach out to what we consider safe people in our life. These are people that don't try to fix you, they don't try to give you easy answers, they're just present with you. There's no understanding of this. If somebody has lost children through miscarriage or had a child die or is unable to even get pregnant, we can't give good explanations for this in our culture and so, trying to give explanation is usually what is unhelpful.

[Janis]: Right

[Brent]: And so, just people that don't have to go there, they just are “I'm so sorry” and “I'm with you” and “I'm present with you” and we encourage on Mother's Day weekend, if that's you, have a plan. Again, kind of like what we talked about before, plan some outing, some experience that is good for you and with your family, your spouse or whoever else that--

[Janis]: A good friend.

[Brent]: Close friends, where you can go do something, again, that is making a new memory and this is two pastors saying this.

[Janis]: Yes

[Brent]: If you need to skip church that day, it's okay.

[Janis]: For any reason that Mother's Day is painful.

[Brent]: Yes, absolutely. If it's just too much where you just feel like “oh my gosh, I'm going to sit there and be miserable all service. Because they're just talking about all their wonderful experiences about mothers and so forth” and without bemoaning that, because there are some that we want to celebrate.

[Janis]: To celebrate.

[Brent]: And that's okay, but just don't put yourself through it then.

[Janis]: Right.

[Brent]: It's okay.

[Janis]: Which is true of Father's Day as well.

[Brent]: Yes, and so-- Now, pastors out there, sorry if that--

[Janis]: Forgiveness. Oops.

[Brent]: Disappoints you, but it's okay and if you're close to someone that you know has gone through a miscarriage this last year, a death or a loss or still trying to get pregnant and just can't, maybe just send them a card.

[Janis]: Not a Mother's Day card.

[Brent]: Not a Mother's Day card, yes. But just something. Reach out to them, take them to lunch, just tell them how much you love and appreciate them. Just be present with people. They just need to know that they're cared for.

[Janis]: And I think those that are married need to talk to their spouse about “what do I need on Mother's Day?”.

[Brent]: That’s good.

[Janis]: And that may be the husband or the wife or both. I mean, we grieve in such different ways and we process things in such different ways, that sometimes we just need a certain thing and I have people all the time, women all the time say “well, if I have to tell him, it doesn't mean anything”. But reality is we can't read each other's minds and because we all grieve differently-- You know, one person may think if we just don't bring it up, that's good.

[Brent]: Right

[Janis]: And the other person is like “no, I need to talk it out, and I need a lot of presents”.

[Brent]: Yes

[Janis]: I don't know who that would be.

[Brent]: You would be in the--

[Janis]: Yes. I would be in the presents--

[Brent]: A lot of presents category.

[Janis]: Yes. So, it's really understanding we all go through things and we just want to support people the best that we can and be there for them.

[Brent]: So, just having those-- In a marriage is having those open, honest conversations “what do you need?”. Is Mother's Day or Father's Day or this day or whatever difficult? “How can we honor it, honor life, our life, and do some things that can help that?”.

[Janis]: Yeah. You know, I think one of the most powerful things we can say in marriage is “what can I do for you now?”

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: I think we all need to hear that from time to time, and it's a humility, but it's “I care so much about you. What do you need? How can I help?”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: I think that can be very powerful. So, as we go through the rest-- Go through the rest of Mother's Day and think about Moms and their roles, we would encourage you to ask yourself some things. Can I let God heal me of my mother or my parent wounds? Do I believe he has the ability to bring healing? I mean, sometimes we question that. Sometimes we may not believe he can do that. But I tell clients “It’s okay to want to believe that you can be healed” and some of them, I say “it's okay for you to want to want to believe that he heals”.

[Brent]: That’s right.

[Janis]: And occasionally it'll be “it's okay to want to want to want to believe that he heals”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: Wherever you are, it's okay, but it's just a step in the right direction and then I would also ask people, “is this a time for you to deal with your mother wounds?”. Because just because you hear podcasts doesn't mean you have to go “oh, I got to go work on this right now”.

[Brent]: Yeah, yeah.

[Janis]: Everybody's got their own timing, and it has to be the right timing for you. The important thing to remember is just, God heals. He's good. It may mean therapy, it may mean being with a good friend that's a safe person, but God heals, and he desires to not only heal us, but to meet all of our needs and we can trust Him for that.

[Brent]: Yeah. So, wherever you find yourself today, we hope that you will know that God is with you, that his presence is with you, that he is embracing you and he gets us. He gets our human journey. He understands why these things are so powerful in our life. So, as you grab ahold of maybe a thought or two, and as you step into this season in our culture, we trust that you'll go in peace, and we trust that God's blessing will be with you.